CBreezy

Says the guy who has near zero time flying in winter icing conditions. Summarizing flying in a winter storm as "read your manuals and turn your ice on--it's that easy" is EXACTLY why you shouldn't be a 121 Captain at this stage in the game. You're immaturity is dangerous.

Secondly, comparing a military pilot to you is irresponsible. First, an F22 pilot isn't flying passengers around. The military pilots that do fly pax have to go through a right seat program just like you and, unlike you, get intensive training once they reach their operational unit. Most of the flying they do has some kind of training objective. When's the last time you flew with an instructor who actually provided instruction? It happens frequently in the military world. It has happened less than a handful of times since I've started flying.

A military pilots at 250 hours has better airmanship than a civilian pilots with 1000 hours. You shouldn't be comparing yourself to them. You aren't even close to half they pilot an F22 driver is.

Blackwing

Sorry, but I have to call BS here. You're way overestimating the abilities of a brand-new military pilot. Yes, they receive great training, but they still have the experience and judgment of a 250 hour pilot. No way around that. A fresh-out-of-B-course fighter pilot poses a greater danger to his fellow pilots than to any adversary. Sure, they can fly the jet, but their SA is about zero at that point.

And there isn't a soul alive flying an F-22 with only 200 hours.

gr8pe ape

^This^ and to reach further back, anyone should look into the accident rates of those newly minted WW2 pilots. I have all the respect in the world for those pilots of the past and present day military pilots. There is a reason not all military pilots go directly to a Major.

24/48

Does it need to be any harder? Seriously, I get that experience is important, but so is following company procedures and checklists. I have yet to fly an airliner that doesn't have detailed procedures on how to handle cold weather ops. You guys make it sound like you need to be a master aviator to recognize the situation that requires engine and/or wing anti-ice.

If their seniority can hold it, and they meet the mins then let the training take it's course and they either pass or fail. If they fail and it is within their probationary year then they are out of a job most likely.

In 2000 we hiring street Captains on the E120 at ASA, and some of them came straight from Flight safety, or Riddle with an ATP written and the ATP requirements. They did just fine with no hull loses.

CBreezy

I'm saying there is more to flying in winter conditions than turn on the anti ice and get deiced. You should always follow company procedures but there comes a time when experience plays a role in non-standard situations. You aren't an expert in the winter because you've read your winter ops manual and did IOE.

DENpilot

Oh? Such as....

You also aren't an expert just because you've gone through the deice process forty times. Most likely if there is a "non-standard situation", it is going to be the CA's first time seeing it as is the FO's.

CBreezy

You're right. Experience is overrated. I say we put a 1500 pilot in the left seat of a 777. I mean, if you read your manuals, you've pretty much got this.

tinman1

But that is not what CBreezy and FB want to hear. They only want preposterous vitriol to support their theory that MAG pilots are of a lesser caliber than all other regional pilots, even if facts indicate otherwise. They don't know what it's really like here though because neither one of them actually works here. Instead they have this fantasy world on APC where they contribute absolutely nothing of value and mainly post just to annoy everyone. Most people just ignore them. They have one of these circle jerks about once every week or two. Typical regional lifer attitude, because no one at mainline wants to work with those types (At least that's what I'm told when riding the jumpseat).

FloridaLarry

Gr8pe Ape said, in part
"...and to reach further back, anyone should look into the accident rates of those newly minted WW2 pilots."

Double-digit hour counts, and off to the front. The wipe out rate in training was astronomical. Even though much of the training was in places like Florida and Kansas, where nothing stuck up to get in the way. The planes were made to last +/- 20 missions, because that was the average airframe lifespan. Use the parts from some to fix up the shot-up aircraft who made it back.

What amazes me is the number of airports named after some green volunteer who pranged fatally during training. Ohare is the exception, not the rule.

CBreezy

No one is talking about Mesa, dummy. Get over yourself. The comment is that perhaps, after one winter and 1000 hours, you might not be prepared to be a Captain. Some people might be. Many others wont be.