pagey

Well this interpretation has not caught on around here, but it appears I was wrong.

That being said, if they "keep you" it is considered FDP, if this was done on a daily basis say giving a reserve an out and back and NOT releasing him they would run into cumulative FDP limits pretty quickly.

Unfortunately the FAA continues to water down 117 with quite a few garbage interpretations in favor of companies instead of pilots.

This one is particularly disturbing, and is already being taken advantage of by my company....

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf

snippercr

CDO = continuous duty overnight. Each airline calls them differently and I've had flight attendants flip out saying "THEY ARE CALLED STAND UPS!" Some places call them high speeds. Some places Stand Ups (Which I never understood).

Basically picture it as an overnight "sit" where you go to the hotel. You usually fly the last leg out to an outstation then the first leg back in the morning which would normally not allow legal rest. So you are on duty the whole time.

Pros: You do not start until usually pretty late - 8 or 9pm. You are also usually done pretty early, 5 or 6am. If you do a line of them, you usually only fly 20-30 hours a month but get what ever your line credit is.

Cons: Even best case scenario, you will get 4-6 hours at hotel which results in say 3-5 hours sleep. If our outbound leg is delayed (ie due to deicing, etc) your return leg will not be adjusted so the time you spend at the hotel will decrease (because you have no minimum rest time).

With that said, CDOs probably depend greatly on the way the contract language at each carrier is written. At Envoy they usually go pretty senior on the pilot side. On reserve they always go to the top reserve people - especially the way they work with our reserve rules. While some people say they just can not due CDOs, they never are forced on a person who doesnt want to do one since there are always people who would rather do them. They work great for local guys and even commuters on reserve (get one day 1 and one second to last day).

squall line

Reserves beware. Unless there is a new interpretation, you are on the hook even after flying. Why else would they keep you on FDP? Mesa pilots, do you want a 1 way ticket to phx to have a nice little chat with A.I.? I don't....

Completely different for line holders. This was all explained and clarified on the last ALPA conference call. Capt D.C. helped write 117. He knows this stuff.

CBreezy

Read the interpretation. It doesn't discriminate. Only thing protecting the pilot is contract language.

Xdashdriver

Well if ALPA wants us to know what was said in the last conference call, perhaps they had better summarize and send it out in an email or something since some of us were not able to dial in.

CBreezy

Who pays segment fees on your UA passes? Did it change for 2015?

Xdashdriver

Segment fees only for second enrolled friends.

PiperPower

Because they're trying to keep you on reserve without actually putting you back on reserve, considering it would be illegal to do so once you've already started a FDP. The only way you could be put back on reserve after starting a FDP is after a 10 hour rest/8 hour sleep opportunity. That's pretty cut and dry to me.

My last airline did this same exact thing, and we were specifically told by our FSDO, we had no obligation to answer the phone if called in this scenario. In that FSDO's interpretation, if you were not notified of more flying added onto your schedule either in the air during your last leg, or after you'd blocked in + 15 minutes, you were done. UNLESS you chose to answer their call later that day, and had FDP left, you had to do it.

And there is no discrimination of who these regs apply too... You say "reserves beware." This scenario happens to line holders too. Reserve, lineholder, captain, FO, black, white, orange, this applies the same to everyone. You aren't on reserve, you're on remaining FDP. It's a tactic to TRY and keep you on the hook by scheduling, but unless you're on a regular or airport reserve shift, you're not required to be available. However, if you answer the phone with FDP left... Whelp, saddle up and go back to work.

It's definitely frustrating that each company apparently interprets federal regulations differently. Shouldn't be that way. If Mesa is somehow interpreting this differently than other airlines and a FSDO that'd be good to know. Thanks for the help.

24/48

You allude to it in bold above......whether it's bankruptcy, downsizing like the GO operation being shutdown, the Mesa pilots haven't had a favorable negotiating environment in which to seek improvements. We'll see what the future brings for Mesa. You get a glimpse at it by seeing what has been voted in at PSA, ENY, PDT, etc. Like it or not, that is where the regional industry is, and with CPA's being the driving factor I'd argue that no regional has any real leverage. The exception being Skywest because management can really do what they please and the pilots just have to "shut up and color".

CBreezy

Good points. Only thing I'll argue is that if scheduling gets ahold of you in flight or you are required to call them for whatever reason, unless your contract stipulated otherwise, they could make you sit in the airport until your FDP expired.