prior121

According to a guy I know hired at delta in 08 and another at united and another at fedex it is all that matters at this level. Just saying.

But it's cool you OO FOs keeping going with that "you don't need TPIC anymore to go to the majors.."

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Jet87

What the hell do you want us to do? Come join the bottom of the list at Mesa so you guys can upgrade faster? I think I'll stay put with my line, 20 min drive to the airport. I'll upgrade in a couple of years, if I haven't already moved on.

Navmode

Once again, we never said to come here; everyone is merely reiterating the fact that every career choice you make has its trade offs. You should do whatever benefits you most. We have a crappy (bankruptcy) contract, but you don't have to wait until year 10 to get to the left seat. If you're somewhere else that pays a dollar or whatever more per hour, then great. Whatever works for you. You don't see mesa guys polluting other threads, do you? What goes on at other airlines isn't our problem. We wish you all the best, we all do the same job.

Brofist*

prior121

Absolutely not. I have no ill feelings towards anyone there.

I'm just sick and tired of the few of you OO FOs who come onto this thread daily and bash Mesa and those of us who came here.

Jet87

I'm not bashing anyone for their decision to go to Mesa. I made one comment about the Mesa contract being sup par. I understand why guys go there, growth is a great thing for a regional.

I come on this thread to keep an eye on what's going on at Mesa, because they are SkyWests competition. I know we are competing for the same flying, so I enjoy hearing both sides of the story. I'm not here to bash. I'm on my second regional and would rather die in the right seat then start out at another regional. I get annoyed with the comments about how "quick upgrade" this and that. Not all of us will have the opportunity to upgrade fast but I still strongly believe other things like, level of education, volunteering, job fairs and connections will still get an RJ FO hired at a legacy. I'm not losing sleep over the quick upgrade at Mesa.

121again

You mean you're not really here to crusade for the industry you only really care about keeping tabs on the competition? My whole reality has just been shattered.

ScottyDo

Well now I'm all confused, so some people are saying I shouldn't go to a regional based on upgrade times? I'm just a guy that's close to the R-ATP mins so I'm just trying to figure things out. For example I have a friend who just started and Express Jet and says his upgrade time is about 8 years. I mean who wants to do that???

deltajuliet

Pretty much why we all came to Mesa. Others went to other regionals a while back, the economy went bad, and then their upgrade times suddenly shot up by years. And you're absolutely right, who wants to do that? Who in their right mind would want to be a regional FO for eight years?

The problem some other people have with Mesa is they feel we underbid other carriers by accepting lower wages, thereby forcing other carriers to cut wages to their employees and causing a "race to the bottom." I don't think that's true, and many others don't either. Many regionals (most? all?) have accepted contracts at a loss because they'd lose more money by having their planes sit unused. These bidding wars between regionals are far more significant than what pilots make, especially when Mesa is basically the same as the rest of the industry. In fact, a while back I made a post that sparked some controversy by having two hypothetical pilots go to Mesa and SkyWest. My theory was that the Mesa guy would come out with more money (due to reaching Captain pay much sooner) and have a lot more seniority at a major airline later since he could get hired there sooner.

What makes this all a passionate discussion right now is that Envoy (American Eagle) pilots have rejected American's contract offer twice in the last few months to try to get a better one; they felt the offers were bad. Now it seems American might just give the offer to Piedmont instead. The Envoy pilots were viewed as taking a stand for the industry, but now it doesn't look good for them.

They should be respected for taking that stand, but there's a sense that anyone who will accept less is essentially stabbing them in the back. With that whole thing, the ball is now in the court of the Piedmont pilots. The problem is, if they don't accept it, they won't get any new planes to replace their old fleet that will be gone in a few years. The economics dictate that they accept in the interest of survival and having a job. But that goes back to the sense of betrayal between pilots.

It's all convoluted and emotional, but at the end of the day, like you, I don't think sitting right seat for eight years sounds fun, prudent, or beneficial. Pilots will always argue, especially with the Internet's anonymity, but at the end of the day you have to do what's best for you. Consider where you live (is it a base for another regional you could see yourself at?), or where you might want to live, as well as career progression. Many think regionals should be a career job; I do not.

blaine

Getting antsy. I'm ready to get this EJET training started already. Who's with me?

Auzzie

Does anyone have a current route map for Mesa?