Mesa
08-17-2014, 01:49 PM
#2421
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: Airbus FO
Posts: 279
Ok clarify this for me--as CLT starts downsizing, displaced pilots have these two options per the domicile displacement section of the contract:
1) Remain in CLT in any status or equipment (i.e. a CLT CA can downgrade to CLT FO)
or
2) Occupy any position in your same status and equipment (i.e. a CLT CA can occupy any CRJ CA position).
Would the company try to twist option #2 (occupy same status and equipment) and bar a downgraded CLT FO from bidding EJet Captain?
1) Remain in CLT in any status or equipment (i.e. a CLT CA can downgrade to CLT FO)
or
2) Occupy any position in your same status and equipment (i.e. a CLT CA can occupy any CRJ CA position).
Would the company try to twist option #2 (occupy same status and equipment) and bar a downgraded CLT FO from bidding EJet Captain?
As for the company wanting to keep you from re-upgrading, you were forced by the company to choose either to get moved geographically or by your status/pay. That were the options given to you and they cannot discipline you for them forcing you to make a choice afforded to you by our contract.
There were guys downgraded in the Dash 8 in PHX to FO who were able to bid CRJ CA, but they did not have the seniority to do so, so it was never noticed that it could be done. In this case you have the seniority.
Two times while I was displaced, I displaced into the ERJ as Captain, and then displaced into the CRJ as Captain, with no seat locks what soever because it was not by choice via a displacement. So the company cannot keep you as a CRJ FO if you have the seniority to upgrade to a higher status/equipment aka the Ejet
08-17-2014, 01:54 PM
#2422
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: Airbus FO
Posts: 279
From our contract
"No equipment commitments exist for First Officers, however a First Officer shall only be allowed to bid into a higher paying turbo-jet captain position"
So you are good to bid EJet as a CRJ FO even after you got downgraded. There are guys who were downgraded from the CRJ before who are bidding the EJet as Captains now.
"No equipment commitments exist for First Officers, however a First Officer shall only be allowed to bid into a higher paying turbo-jet captain position"
So you are good to bid EJet as a CRJ FO even after you got downgraded. There are guys who were downgraded from the CRJ before who are bidding the EJet as Captains now.
08-17-2014, 02:58 PM
#2423
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 432
How would displacements affect hiring?
08-17-2014, 03:10 PM
#2424
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: 175 Left
Posts: 1,539
It wouldn't.
Think of it simply like this:
CRJ CA John Smith downgrades to CRJ FO John Smith to stay in CLT.
CRJ FO John Doe upgrades to (whichever CRJ base he can hold) CRJ CA to fill the vacancy CRJ CA John Smith created when downgraded.
This triggers an FO vacancy that must be filled with a new hire.
Doesn't matter which position CRJ or EJET an FO upgrades to, it still creates the same amount of FO vacancies that must be filled by new hires.
There is no net loss of aircraft, there's is a net gain. Think for every new aircraft we need 5 more FOs.
Think of it simply like this:
CRJ CA John Smith downgrades to CRJ FO John Smith to stay in CLT.
CRJ FO John Doe upgrades to (whichever CRJ base he can hold) CRJ CA to fill the vacancy CRJ CA John Smith created when downgraded.
This triggers an FO vacancy that must be filled with a new hire.
Doesn't matter which position CRJ or EJET an FO upgrades to, it still creates the same amount of FO vacancies that must be filled by new hires.
There is no net loss of aircraft, there's is a net gain. Think for every new aircraft we need 5 more FOs.
08-17-2014, 03:13 PM
#2425
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 432
It wouldn't.
Think of it simply like this:
CRJ CA John Smith downgrades to CRJ FO John Smith to stay in CLT.
CRJ FO John Doe upgrades to (whichever CRJ base he can hold) CRJ CA to fill the vacancy CRJ CA John Smith created when downgraded.
This triggers an FO vacancy that must be filled with a new hire.
Doesn't matter which position CRJ or EJET an FO upgrades to, it still creates the same amount of FO vacancies that must be filled by new hires.
There is no net loss of aircraft, there's is a net gain. Think for every new aircraft we need 5 more FOs.
Think of it simply like this:
CRJ CA John Smith downgrades to CRJ FO John Smith to stay in CLT.
CRJ FO John Doe upgrades to (whichever CRJ base he can hold) CRJ CA to fill the vacancy CRJ CA John Smith created when downgraded.
This triggers an FO vacancy that must be filled with a new hire.
Doesn't matter which position CRJ or EJET an FO upgrades to, it still creates the same amount of FO vacancies that must be filled by new hires.
There is no net loss of aircraft, there's is a net gain. Think for every new aircraft we need 5 more FOs.
08-17-2014, 03:20 PM
#2426
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: 175 Left
Posts: 1,539
How about that company update. I don't think they could have made it much more obvious about more aircraft if they highlighted and underlined We have secured a line of credit for new aircraft in the last paragraph of the email.
08-17-2014, 04:09 PM
#2429
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: 175 Left
Posts: 1,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech90
How would displacements affect hiring?
It wouldn't.
Think of it simply like this:
CRJ CA John Smith downgrades to CRJ FO John Smith to stay in CLT.
CRJ FO John Doe upgrades to (whichever CRJ base he can hold) CRJ CA to fill the vacancy CRJ CA John Smith created when downgraded.
This triggers an FO vacancy that must be filled with a new hire.
Doesn't matter which position CRJ or EJET an FO upgrades to, it still creates the same amount of FO vacancies that must be filled by new hires.
There is no net loss of aircraft, there's is a net gain. Think for every new aircraft we need 5 more FOs.
Originally Posted by Beech90
How would displacements affect hiring?
It wouldn't.
Think of it simply like this:
CRJ CA John Smith downgrades to CRJ FO John Smith to stay in CLT.
CRJ FO John Doe upgrades to (whichever CRJ base he can hold) CRJ CA to fill the vacancy CRJ CA John Smith created when downgraded.
This triggers an FO vacancy that must be filled with a new hire.
Doesn't matter which position CRJ or EJET an FO upgrades to, it still creates the same amount of FO vacancies that must be filled by new hires.
There is no net loss of aircraft, there's is a net gain. Think for every new aircraft we need 5 more FOs.
For every new aircraft we need 10 new hires + 1 or 2 (for attrition)
5 new hires per plane to fill the right seat of whichever aircraft. (EJET or CRJ)
5 more new hire to cover the vacancy the upgrading CA just created in the right seat of the CRJ.
08-17-2014, 05:55 PM
#2430
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 977
You have it correct with the Number 1 and Number 2 examples.
As for the company wanting to keep you from re-upgrading, you were forced by the company to choose either to get moved geographically or by your status/pay. That were the options given to you and they cannot discipline you for them forcing you to make a choice afforded to you by our contract.
There were guys downgraded in the Dash 8 in PHX to FO who were able to bid CRJ CA, but they did not have the seniority to do so, so it was never noticed that it could be done. In this case you have the seniority.
Two times while I was displaced, I displaced into the ERJ as Captain, and then displaced into the CRJ as Captain, with no seat locks what soever because it was not by choice via a displacement. So the company cannot keep you as a CRJ FO if you have the seniority to upgrade to a higher status/equipment aka the Ejet
As for the company wanting to keep you from re-upgrading, you were forced by the company to choose either to get moved geographically or by your status/pay. That were the options given to you and they cannot discipline you for them forcing you to make a choice afforded to you by our contract.
There were guys downgraded in the Dash 8 in PHX to FO who were able to bid CRJ CA, but they did not have the seniority to do so, so it was never noticed that it could be done. In this case you have the seniority.
Two times while I was displaced, I displaced into the ERJ as Captain, and then displaced into the CRJ as Captain, with no seat locks what soever because it was not by choice via a displacement. So the company cannot keep you as a CRJ FO if you have the seniority to upgrade to a higher status/equipment aka the Ejet
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