wt932051

Simple. The base closed. It was not gradually downsized. If a base is downsized, you can choose to downgrade to remain in your base. With CLT it is almost impossible the company can issue one massive displacement bid covering all the way to June of next year.

wt932051

Attrition is a factor I forgot to mention, thanks for pointing that out. I would say it would be very little as most guys inside 300-350 global are lifers and won't retire for about 7-10 more years. Beyond 350 global, it just depends on how fast guys get 1000 pic and who they know to get hired elsewhere, and how picky they are. Right now attrition is very little in the Captain ranks...

flapshalfspeed

In the past when you went through displacements/downgrades, I am assuming those were all times were there was an overall reduction in flying/airframes--hence fewer available positions--hence the possibility of an involuntary downgrade.

There is no net reduction in CA positions (in fact since we're still upgrading new CAs, there will likely be more than enough CA positions on the displacement/base-closure bid to accomodate all existing CLT/ORD CRJ CAs).

It sounds like you know the contract provisions on this really well--so maybe you can explain to me how an existing CLT CA could be involuntarily displaced to FO when they close CLT?

wt932051

You guys/gals are not following the Standing Bids/Displacements close enough. Nobody in Hawaii was allowed to downgrade during the base closure. Please re-look at standing bid 14-14. That was the domicile closure bid. It was a complete base closure in one single standing bid with a single effective date of closure. There were no downgrades. They were not allowed.
The downgrade that happened was a separate prior standing bid HNL reduction/downsizing of the HNL base, and as you said he bid voluntary so yes, the Captain was allowed to downgrade. That is what I am trying to explain that you can downgrade during reductions.
CLT will most likely be a reduction until the final closure bid because it is so huge, where at that point, no one can downgrade in that final Standing bid, just like the HNL reduction/Closure bids happened.
Charlotte will not have a single standing bid (I think) with a single effective date, hence allowing downgrades to happen, they have no way around it. It is going to cost them money. I am pretty sure JO is not thrilled about it either...lol

wt932051

I have been in both Domicile and Equipment displacements and each have very different rules. This will be a Domicile Displacement.

Per the contract,
"A pilot will be considered displaced from his domicile when he can no longer hold a position in that domicile in his status and equipment but he can hold a position in that status and equipment system wide. When a pilot is displaced from his domicile as the result of a reduction or geographic relocation of pilot position(s) he will have the following options in accordance with his seniority:

1. Remain in his current domicile in any status or equipment; or

2. Occupy any position in his same status and equipment"

So if for some reason Mesa issues a displacement of CLT saying
"ALL" Captains and FO's Domicile displacement in a single bid, you will have to stay in your Left seat. VOL Displacement vs INVOL would not matter. Everyone would be forced out at once. You can bid VOL but it would not matter one bit. This is what the Hawaii bid was.

If they issue it in 10,20,30,40 or whatever number at a time effective for Oct/Nov etc., and don't displace everybody in the same displacement standing bid, hence a reduction in flying in that base, you would be allowed to downgrade. VOL Displacement is a factor here. If you bid VOL, you use the most junior person in your seat's seniority getting displaced to bid what they could hold, which could be a downgrade/another base as Captain, etc. before you would have gotten displaced with your seniority since you were more senior and were not within range of the reduction of the base/standing bid at that point. Another words the most senior captain in CLT will not be getting displaced INVOL in Oct so if he wanted to leave CLT or downgrade for some reason that soon, he could bid VOL and take the place of a Junior guy getting displaced and his rights as well. Make sense?

As for Vol Displacement, you are afforded the same rights as involuntary so you will not be seat locked as an FO and can rebid for upgrade per the contract. I have done both VOL and INVOL displacements to my advantage. No body really tells you this stuff. It get confusing as you noticed.

flapshalfspeed

Good info.

I'll still be very surprised if they drawdown CLT long-term like that. Seems like it would be smarter for them to do something like this:

1) Displace to IAD/DFW/PHX in one huge CLT closure
2) Backfill with a huge TDY for up to 112 days
3) Rebuild CLT trips into IAD trips starting & ending with Airways DHDs (they do this with IAD reserves ALL the time); and also PHX linear-line trips flowing through SAT/DFW to CLT

But sounds like you're pretty certain they aren't gonna close it all at once.

wt932051

In the case of ORD, unfortunately while it is a Domicile displacement, because it will be "ALL" seats in one single bid, no one can downgrade. They will have to pick another base as of the effective date which I think will be OCT 1st.

wt932051

You brought up some very good points with TDY and Rebuilding trips with DH's, and they might very well do any of these, if they catch wind of guys wanting to downgrade when they start seeing how people are bidding...

Bumbaclot

When would they if any be eligible to downgrade and rebid e175 ca?
So the earliest one could do that would be until they could no longer hold CLT capt?

wt932051

You are eligible as long as the standing bid displacement does not say "ALL" in it with a single effective date.

If you are senior and you want the Ejet you should bid VOL if Mesa issues a Standing bid with a reduction in flying in CLT to get downgraded.

If you are really senior and wait until you get INVOL and it is the Final standing bid with the remaining pilots aka it says "ALL" then you waited too late and you can not downgrade. You have to decide how much you want to chance waiting.

If you are Junior, then when you get INVOL during a Reduction, you can bid for FO at that point.