SMACFUM

Really?!? Flying real airplanes, with real passengers, at real airports is a whole different world than flying in a computerized box? Who would of thought.

I was looking for specific reasons why people get hung up on IOE.

Thanks, this makes sense.

morerightrudder

Out on the line its mostly visual approaches, and the profiles you learned in the sim generally don't apply. That's probably the hardest part of IOE.

blaine

I remember the first time I stepped out of the school house and into IOE. The school house was much more difficult and stressful than IOE. I can't imagine anyone thinking the opposite.

SMACFUM

This absolutely makes sense, and I get it. But, during IOE isn't the line check airman that your paired up with supposed to guide the new guys through these types of issues? I guess I'm just trying to understand the dynamics of what exactly is expected and what the standard is v.s. how much assistance your allowed from the check airman. Better put, what is considered a "satisfactory" performance during IOE, or can this get pretty subjective?

Bumbaclot

Absolutely and you'll get it. It just takes a little longer in some cases than others. Most guys are well prepared for it and have a grasp on what's gonna happen. Typically guys do 2 four day trips and are signed off. Pretty straight forward stuff where you just fly together and then he/she signs you off after a line check.

Bumbaclot

I agree, it's just different.

Jvw700

Sorry I don't have the time to detail everything out for you! You won't comprehend it anyway until you're actually out on the line doing IOE!! You asked what was so different from the sim... Nearly everything! In the sim they are preparing you to pass a check ride so it's nothing but maneuvers and approaches over and over mixed in with emergency abnormals. There is no time to teach you how to do actual line flying when it comes to dealing with ops, flight attendants, passengers, ATC, ramp, visual approaches, ect.... All of that comes from IOE where you will feel way behind the curve for most of your first trip... Then after you're finished you get dumped into the system where you'll fly with a myriad of different personalities and styles who aren't going to babysit you as much as your IOE captain does.... It will all start to slow down for you eventually after a while, then you can start to think of other things in the operation and not just flying the airplane... Ok?
Also I think what catches people off guard is the pace of everything, it seems like you're always rushed and so I think it can be easy to get frustrated. Some people catch on quicker than others..

flapshalfspeed

It's subjective based on the check airman and especially your overall attitude/bearing.

For example, there are some peope who get all flustered in the "real" airplane on the line--typically the know-it-all types who are on APC giving advice to everyone before they even finish their checkride (cough cough, DeltaJuliet, cough cough).

Humility goes a very, very long way if you're an FNG in this industry--keep that in mind when you're on IOE--too many new hires these days think this is some kind of guaranteed thing they're entitlted to. Ironically, the new hires who seem to be the most humble and willing to listen & learn on IOE are the ones with a few thousand hours and a decent amount of 121 turbine experience--it takes time and experience to really comprehend how much you don't know, if that makes any sense.

Working the radios is a big hurdle for lots of people, especially people who haven't flown in and out of highly congested airspaces before--there's lots of slang and localized ways of doing/saying things, and it takes quite some time before you're really able to juggle ATC, comms with dispatch/maintenance, taxiing around and not having a runway incursion, all while keeping your eye on weather, fuel status, potential rest/FDP issues, etc..

This is why some of us on here kind of roll our eyes when people in this thread who are completely new to 121 flying confidently proclaim their ideations about upgrading in one year with exactly 1000 hours of 121 SIC time. IMHO you haven't seen enough stuff or developed enough instincts at that level, but maybe it works out for those "shoulder straps on always" type guys who have it all figured out!

blaine

Awesome post halfspeed

RV5M

IOE captain who don't know how to teach or communicate.