Mesa Air Group Chapter 11 Info
01-29-2010, 09:06 AM
#281
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
Hahaha I'm pretty sure the mag pilots will murder their union leadership if they set up a road block to getting on at Skywest. Don't worry.
01-29-2010, 09:11 AM
#282
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
I seriously doubt there would be much whipsaw with mag pilots...SKW would probably just offer them the same package that ASA and SKW pilots already have...which would be a significant improvement. Possibly with some conditions attached (PBS), who knows. But this is 90% speculation, I think INC would rather not go there at all.
I'm glad we had the option and I'm glad that MAG does as well. If MAG comes out of BK without all the liabilities they currently have, I would welcome XJT acquiring them and integrating seniority lists. From a pilots' profession point of view, I would much prefer that than them liquidating and carriers scavenging whatever is left.
Last edited by Nevets; 01-29-2010 at 09:53 AM.
01-29-2010, 09:18 AM
#283
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
You never know. At XJT many pilots, and the XJT MEC, felt that it was a good business move for SKW to acquire XJT and that it could be good for the pilots as well. But once the pilots were educated on what SKW plans were, most pilots changed their minds and thanked the XJT MEC for not giving in to SKW's demands even though we were facing the possibility of BK and liquidation.
01-29-2010, 09:35 AM
#284
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,044
You never know. At XJT many pilots, and the XJT MEC, felt that it was a good business move for SKW to acquire XJT and that it could be good for the pilots as well. But once the pilots were educated on what SKW plans were, most pilots changed their minds and thanked the XJT MEC for not giving in to SKW's demands even though we were facing the possibility of BK and liquidation.
01-29-2010, 09:46 AM
#285
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
By the way, everyone on the XJT MEC at the time were in their right mind, thank you.
01-29-2010, 10:44 AM
#286
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,044
01-29-2010, 10:54 AM
#287
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Not according to JA and BR. Their prognosis was 6-9 months to BK. It was a risk to turn down their offer. But it was best for our pilots, the ASA and SKW pilots, and the profession as a whole. You are right that Mesa will have their own calculation to make considering their circumstances but IF they do emerge from BK, I don't think they will be in as a dire situation as people make it out to be.
01-29-2010, 11:07 AM
#288
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,044
If mag ends up with just 700/900's, new (and enlightened) management, and a reasonable cost structure, they could probably move forward.
But the other hurdle they have is financial irregularities. In bankruptcy you can cut away losses due to bad business decisions, bad market conditions, and bad luck. But if there is actual misappropriation of funds/assets, then you may be dealing with criminal issues and BK court won't help you there.
01-29-2010, 02:55 PM
#289
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
But in the process they got rid of a competitor. I doubt AA would remain on the sidelines if there is further consolidation, especially if UAL/CAL merge. So I wouldn't hold my breath on AA never merging/acquiring anyone outside of BK. IF MAG makes it out of BK, they may have something to offer so I wouldn't be so sure about that either. For example, MAG would offer diversification of partners (USA & UAL) and introduction of 70/90 seat aircraft to a company which doesn't currently have any. Of course by definition there will most likely be disagreements between pilots in any SLI but as DAL/NWA demonstrated it can be done rather peacefully if everyone knows ahead of time what the rules of the game are and the expectations of the outcome may be, especially if it goes to arbitration.
ALPA merger policy would prevail if its with another ALPA carrier. But their scope, other than requiring integration by the acquiring carrier, says that if aircraft are transferred to another carrier and subsequently used on the same routes their pilots were flying, then the pilots will be given the ability to bid over. In your case it doesn't sound like they transferred any of EGL aircraft.
Your assuming that the acquiring carrier will keep all of MAG's current management. If for example, SKW acquires them, I would think that JA and company would get rid of JO and company. Then the major airline partners will be willing to do business with the likes of JA and company since they already have a good business relationship with a good product to offer.
Maybe no one would touch them at their current state, but that doesn't mean they wont touch them after exiting BK, assuming they do of course.
The Mesa pilots have maneuvered themselves in the same position that XJT had. If any airline wants to acquire MAG, they must integrate lists. If the acquiring airline does not want that, they either bow out or negotiate with the MAG MEC. At that point, its up to the MAG MEC to decide the positives and negatives of the last best offer on the table. I know that what SKW was offering XJT, whipsaw of three airlines against each other, was much worse than the any benefits SKW was offering. The MAG MEC will make the same calculation for themselves as well. And I'm sure they will be told a how bunch of negative financial stuff to "persuade" them to be "cost competitive" and hitch themselves on the "life boat." But if in fact they exit BK, they probably have a case to make that they can make it independent, just as XJT did, and has, so far. But even if that was in question, its still a matter of if that is better than to take what is being offered by the acquiring carrier (ala F9/SWA). I know that at XJT, even if we would have come to some sort of agreement with SKW management that gave pilots of all three airlines protection from the whipsaw game they wanted to play, it would have still been put up for vote to the pilots to ratify for themselves so they can make their own calculation.
Anyways, don't be so presumptuous as to think that it would be lucky for them to swing gear for you on first year pay if they don't agree to the whipsaw game your management plays.
And just to be clear again, XJT MEC did NOT block the acquisition of XJT by SKW. SKW could have bought XJT without having to confer with the XJT MEC if they wanted to. Just like any other airline can today. I know almost for certainty that if it is XJT trying to acquire MAG, they would abide by their successorship clause and the XJT MEC would welcome an integration that would be fair.
ALPA merger policy would prevail if its with another ALPA carrier. But their scope, other than requiring integration by the acquiring carrier, says that if aircraft are transferred to another carrier and subsequently used on the same routes their pilots were flying, then the pilots will be given the ability to bid over. In your case it doesn't sound like they transferred any of EGL aircraft.
Your assuming that the acquiring carrier will keep all of MAG's current management. If for example, SKW acquires them, I would think that JA and company would get rid of JO and company. Then the major airline partners will be willing to do business with the likes of JA and company since they already have a good business relationship with a good product to offer.
Maybe no one would touch them at their current state, but that doesn't mean they wont touch them after exiting BK, assuming they do of course.
The Mesa pilots have maneuvered themselves in the same position that XJT had. If any airline wants to acquire MAG, they must integrate lists. If the acquiring airline does not want that, they either bow out or negotiate with the MAG MEC. At that point, its up to the MAG MEC to decide the positives and negatives of the last best offer on the table. I know that what SKW was offering XJT, whipsaw of three airlines against each other, was much worse than the any benefits SKW was offering. The MAG MEC will make the same calculation for themselves as well. And I'm sure they will be told a how bunch of negative financial stuff to "persuade" them to be "cost competitive" and hitch themselves on the "life boat." But if in fact they exit BK, they probably have a case to make that they can make it independent, just as XJT did, and has, so far. But even if that was in question, its still a matter of if that is better than to take what is being offered by the acquiring carrier (ala F9/SWA). I know that at XJT, even if we would have come to some sort of agreement with SKW management that gave pilots of all three airlines protection from the whipsaw game they wanted to play, it would have still been put up for vote to the pilots to ratify for themselves so they can make their own calculation.
Anyways, don't be so presumptuous as to think that it would be lucky for them to swing gear for you on first year pay if they don't agree to the whipsaw game your management plays.
And just to be clear again, XJT MEC did NOT block the acquisition of XJT by SKW. SKW could have bought XJT without having to confer with the XJT MEC if they wanted to. Just like any other airline can today. I know almost for certainty that if it is XJT trying to acquire MAG, they would abide by their successorship clause and the XJT MEC would welcome an integration that would be fair.
We each have beliefs on Mesa's future and time will prove one of us correct.
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