Future of Mesa
08-07-2023, 11:59 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2023
Position: E175 first officer
Posts: 367
we're (Republic) fairly close to even on captains with upgrades every week or two it seems and we are flying a few of Mesas routes.
Since Im here, I don't think UA is buying Mesa. If they did they would have to buy gj and c5 and they don't want them either. Maybe some sort of real flow, but they would have to do that for gj and c5 and they arent announcing anything.
Since Im here, I don't think UA is buying Mesa. If they did they would have to buy gj and c5 and they don't want them either. Maybe some sort of real flow, but they would have to do that for gj and c5 and they arent announcing anything.
08-07-2023, 12:07 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Position: pilot
Posts: 144
we're (Republic) fairly close to even on captains with upgrades every week or two it seems and we are flying a few of Mesas routes.
Since Im here, I don't think UA is buying Mesa. If they did they would have to buy gj and c5 and they don't want them either. Maybe some sort of real flow, but they would have to do that for gj and c5 and they arent announcing anything.
Since Im here, I don't think UA is buying Mesa. If they did they would have to buy gj and c5 and they don't want them either. Maybe some sort of real flow, but they would have to do that for gj and c5 and they arent announcing anything.
You are also thus surely aware that if UA were to acquire *any* carrier they'd be required to operate those flights with UA FAs.
And finally, the only way C5 ever flies the 175 for UA is if someone else STOPs flying an equivalent number of 76-seaters due to scope limitations.
08-07-2023, 02:11 PM
#23
Isn’t that a sauce?
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 280
lol commutair and mesa merging isnt happening.
The REAL most likely scenarios is either:
A) United and Mesa agree to a REAL contractual United flow like the American Airlines wholly owned do to AA (envoy, piedmont), no fine print BS
B) United and Mesa part ways as you said and they would only be a cargo carrier for DHL and maybe create another contract with Amazon, etc.
C) United buys Mesa and all Mesa pilots become United pilots.
Come back to this post next month and see how right I was.
The REAL most likely scenarios is either:
A) United and Mesa agree to a REAL contractual United flow like the American Airlines wholly owned do to AA (envoy, piedmont), no fine print BS
B) United and Mesa part ways as you said and they would only be a cargo carrier for DHL and maybe create another contract with Amazon, etc.
C) United buys Mesa and all Mesa pilots become United pilots.
Come back to this post next month and see how right I was.
08-07-2023, 02:24 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 394
As someone either said or eluded to before...why is United so shy about creating official flow programs with their partners?
08-07-2023, 02:54 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2023
Position: E175 first officer
Posts: 367
You're aware that UA already owns major stakes in both Mesa and C5, and part of the share stake in Republic, right? From a practical perspective, UA owns C5: they own the planes, the gas, the parts, the catering, the ops agents. C5 just provides flight crews and mechs.
You are also thus surely aware that if UA were to acquire *any* carrier they'd be required to operate those flights with UA FAs.
And finally, the only way C5 ever flies the 175 for UA is if someone else STOPs flying an equivalent number of 76-seaters due to scope limitations.
You are also thus surely aware that if UA were to acquire *any* carrier they'd be required to operate those flights with UA FAs.
And finally, the only way C5 ever flies the 175 for UA is if someone else STOPs flying an equivalent number of 76-seaters due to scope limitations.
08-07-2023, 06:06 PM
#26
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 21
We (Republic) FOs are lucky because we are almost 50-50 and are hiring FOs.
It's good for you all if they are still hiring anyone. Though I suppose they could hire someone in the morning and close the doors the next day. The more I learn about the industry the crazier it gets.
It's good for you all if they are still hiring anyone. Though I suppose they could hire someone in the morning and close the doors the next day. The more I learn about the industry the crazier it gets.
I overheard an ALPA rep and a captain talking about a major announcement coming out in September… they speculated that it would be United buying out Mesa. Has anyone heard this rumor?
I am well aware rumors are very unreliable in this industry. Just wondering if others have heard the same thing.
Also, any updates on the CRJ program? Are we ramping up operations in Denver? I know we sent our line qualified instructors back to the line and stopped hiring, but I spoke to a recruiter and he said they’re still hiring CRJ non line qualified sim instructors in anticipation of resuming hiring later this year.
I am well aware rumors are very unreliable in this industry. Just wondering if others have heard the same thing.
Also, any updates on the CRJ program? Are we ramping up operations in Denver? I know we sent our line qualified instructors back to the line and stopped hiring, but I spoke to a recruiter and he said they’re still hiring CRJ non line qualified sim instructors in anticipation of resuming hiring later this year.
Yes sir. There is indeed some big big announcement being made in September. Oddly enough, it is also the date of the town hall meeting with JO. So whatever it is, most likely will be revealed in the town hall online meeting with the CEO.
Could it be United buying out Mesa, and all Mesa pilots becoming United pilots and merging mesa/united seniority lists like spirit and jetblue were planning? Sure. Delta is practically doing the same thing in the near future with endeavor.
The buying of Mesa by United can have many positives. It means JO can take an early retirement and live in some mansion far away from civilization and not have to stress about making Mesa survive. It will add 10 years to his life. Mesa will have a HUGE support of cash from united. Mesa will become more stable, being a wholly owned (or fully stable if it becomes United)
Thats the best case scenario.
Worst case scenario is that United is not happy shelling out money for Mesa, it's not happy with crj performance and the planes constantly breaking down. So they also cut ties with Mesa. Mesa will be nothing other than some small DHL cargo carrier no one will remember.
Could it be United buying out Mesa, and all Mesa pilots becoming United pilots and merging mesa/united seniority lists like spirit and jetblue were planning? Sure. Delta is practically doing the same thing in the near future with endeavor.
The buying of Mesa by United can have many positives. It means JO can take an early retirement and live in some mansion far away from civilization and not have to stress about making Mesa survive. It will add 10 years to his life. Mesa will have a HUGE support of cash from united. Mesa will become more stable, being a wholly owned (or fully stable if it becomes United)
Thats the best case scenario.
Worst case scenario is that United is not happy shelling out money for Mesa, it's not happy with crj performance and the planes constantly breaking down. So they also cut ties with Mesa. Mesa will be nothing other than some small DHL cargo carrier no one will remember.
Please provide supporting the facts to these statements, otherwise these are 100% rumors and cannot be acknowledged as accurate. This thread should be closed !
08-07-2023, 07:25 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 161
08-10-2023, 12:33 AM
#28
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2012
Position: Left seat
Posts: 5
DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH
No regional airline is being bought or merged with anyone until the new FAA Funding bill is signed into law. Especially not a debt laden loss-making airline like Mesa whose underperformance continues to disappoint even the most optimistic industry analysts. Today, Mesa announced a staggering $46.7 Million loss over a relatively short three month fiscal period. This isn't sustainable no matter who's paying the pilots salaries. Mesa's future is indeed unclear. Just about every airline both large & small periodically models their long-term growth prospects and capital investments in new aircraft, training facilities, labor contracts etc. Given the pilot shortage in recent years, just about all airlines have based these models on the assumption that congress would raise the retirement age for pilots in the next FAA funding bill.
AGE IS JUST A NUMBER, RIGHT?
Age 67 is anything but a done deal. The Age 67 amendment passed the House, but still has yet to clear the Senate. Raising the pilot retirement age to 67 will effectively be a lifeline to the regional airline industry, which is already in its death throes. Age 67 will temporarily help regional airlines like Mesa slow its Captain attrition rate by forcing older mainline pilots (Age 65+) out of their international seats, and into domestic flying, as ICAO's 65 year age limit will go unchanged regardless of the outcome of the FAA funding bill. Age 67 will relieve pressure on Mesa but the airline's future is all but certain. If the new FAA funding bill fails to raise the retirement age, it's very possible that Mesa, and other regional airlines may be headed for bankruptcy. ALPA, AFA, and several other AFL-CIO affiliate unions which collectively hold a death grip on the U.S. Senate are overwhelmingly against raising the retirement age. It's a bold position that could end up accelerating the end of the regional airline industry within months.
SHORT TERM PAIN
While Mesa is notorious for its operational mismanagement and fiscal incompetence, there are many factors outside of the company’s control that have affected the entire regional airline industry. The pilot shortage is the biggest factor, and has been exacerbated by the FAA with outdated certification standards, the majority of which were written in the 1960's. Some FAA regs are preserved in law under the false guise of promoting safety to the traveling public, while others are knee-jerk reactions to accidents & incidents, like the 1500-hour rule, an unnecessary barrier to many who might otherwise be actively flying in the airline industry right now. Thousands of pilots are also medically grounded on any given year by the FAA (Federal Air Surgeon) due to outdated medical certification standards which were also written in the 1960's. Raising the retirement age alone will not address the pilot shortage in any lasting or meaningful way. It's merely a temporary bandage. Unless the Senate has the appetite for a comprehensive review of the FAA's pilot certification, and medical standards, and/or is willing to place badly needed restrictions on the FAA which enjoys unlimited 'discretion' then it's probably in everyone's best interest to let the regional airline industry die.
EXHALE, BREATHE NORMALLY
In spite of United's existing investments and small strategic ownership stake in Mesa, it's unlikely United would merge or acquire Mesa Airlines anytime soon. At least not now, and not in Mesa's current financial state. What is likely though are more financial losses, more complex transactions, e.g. aircraft sales, parts auctions, leases, debt swaps, which through preferential pricing can sometimes shift & deflect blame for bad business decisions. In short you can expect more of the same until we all find out what's in the new FAA funding bill, specifically whether Age 67 will officially be signed into law. In the meantime I wouldn't hold my breath on any merger or acquisitions announcements.
No regional airline is being bought or merged with anyone until the new FAA Funding bill is signed into law. Especially not a debt laden loss-making airline like Mesa whose underperformance continues to disappoint even the most optimistic industry analysts. Today, Mesa announced a staggering $46.7 Million loss over a relatively short three month fiscal period. This isn't sustainable no matter who's paying the pilots salaries. Mesa's future is indeed unclear. Just about every airline both large & small periodically models their long-term growth prospects and capital investments in new aircraft, training facilities, labor contracts etc. Given the pilot shortage in recent years, just about all airlines have based these models on the assumption that congress would raise the retirement age for pilots in the next FAA funding bill.
AGE IS JUST A NUMBER, RIGHT?
Age 67 is anything but a done deal. The Age 67 amendment passed the House, but still has yet to clear the Senate. Raising the pilot retirement age to 67 will effectively be a lifeline to the regional airline industry, which is already in its death throes. Age 67 will temporarily help regional airlines like Mesa slow its Captain attrition rate by forcing older mainline pilots (Age 65+) out of their international seats, and into domestic flying, as ICAO's 65 year age limit will go unchanged regardless of the outcome of the FAA funding bill. Age 67 will relieve pressure on Mesa but the airline's future is all but certain. If the new FAA funding bill fails to raise the retirement age, it's very possible that Mesa, and other regional airlines may be headed for bankruptcy. ALPA, AFA, and several other AFL-CIO affiliate unions which collectively hold a death grip on the U.S. Senate are overwhelmingly against raising the retirement age. It's a bold position that could end up accelerating the end of the regional airline industry within months.
SHORT TERM PAIN
While Mesa is notorious for its operational mismanagement and fiscal incompetence, there are many factors outside of the company’s control that have affected the entire regional airline industry. The pilot shortage is the biggest factor, and has been exacerbated by the FAA with outdated certification standards, the majority of which were written in the 1960's. Some FAA regs are preserved in law under the false guise of promoting safety to the traveling public, while others are knee-jerk reactions to accidents & incidents, like the 1500-hour rule, an unnecessary barrier to many who might otherwise be actively flying in the airline industry right now. Thousands of pilots are also medically grounded on any given year by the FAA (Federal Air Surgeon) due to outdated medical certification standards which were also written in the 1960's. Raising the retirement age alone will not address the pilot shortage in any lasting or meaningful way. It's merely a temporary bandage. Unless the Senate has the appetite for a comprehensive review of the FAA's pilot certification, and medical standards, and/or is willing to place badly needed restrictions on the FAA which enjoys unlimited 'discretion' then it's probably in everyone's best interest to let the regional airline industry die.
EXHALE, BREATHE NORMALLY
In spite of United's existing investments and small strategic ownership stake in Mesa, it's unlikely United would merge or acquire Mesa Airlines anytime soon. At least not now, and not in Mesa's current financial state. What is likely though are more financial losses, more complex transactions, e.g. aircraft sales, parts auctions, leases, debt swaps, which through preferential pricing can sometimes shift & deflect blame for bad business decisions. In short you can expect more of the same until we all find out what's in the new FAA funding bill, specifically whether Age 67 will officially be signed into law. In the meantime I wouldn't hold my breath on any merger or acquisitions announcements.
08-17-2023, 06:19 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,260
They haven’t retained, they’ve shrunk to a size where hiring can keep up with attrition, for now.
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