backtoregionals

Submit ASAPs on EVERYTHING you find wrong, EVERYTHING. There’s supposed to be a new survey coming out soon. Every single pilot in this company needs to fill it out. Our POI is still on the fence about these charts. If we don’t submit ASAPs and do the survey, we might end up stuck with this pile of crap.

pangolin

The problem here is the legitimate concerns are getting lost in the noise of the immature responses by several vocal yet uneducated pilots. They suck. They are bad. It’s crap. We like jepps better. Well none of that matters. I can’t find this. I can’t find that. None of that matters.

Serious concerns like inadvertently tapping the screen and having the chart change have been addressed.

Now there ARE issues with these charts. Nav Blue is receptive to correcting them. Corrections are being made. Enroute is the biggest issue to me.

But even the ASAP reports I see are just flat bogus. Come on. Complaining that it doesn’t have weather information? No ****. Up until the last release jepp didn’t either. Besides your weather comes from the release. Not jepps. That’s a bogus concern.

Complain about MISSING and out dated information that impacts safety.

Complain about the inability to identify airspace.

Complain about the fact that you can’t navigate non RNAV because the information is just plain missing.

Bit don’t say:

They suck
ASAPS will go up
Pilot violations will increase

Be precise. Be professional. Be mature.

Yes there are problems. But seriously even the lack of plotting SIDS and STARS isn’t a REAL safety issue.

We are not allowed to use own ship. We have to be in airplane mode. So even jepps with the new bells and whistles are useless in the air.

I’ve been using the new charts. Since the beginning. I’ve found problems. All except enroute have been addressed.

I find the new jepp interface to be slow and hard to use. I’ve even found jepp references in SIDS to obstacle clearance charts that WE DO NOT HAVE. Does that mean Jepps suck or they are unsafe. Hell no.

I’m not calling out Backtoregionals here. But I’m saying to everyone else - be specific. Be mature. Do NOT compare to the existing Jepp product. How good Jepp is has NOTHING To do with the safety of Charts plus. The company’s motivation in moving has nothing to do with the safety or accuracy of Charts plus. Nav Blues market goals or motivation have nothing to do with it. Stop *****ing about that and post some real concerns. The Mexico dme arc fix concerns are not legitimate either. Ask sometime to go direct to one of those fixes. ATC won’t have a clue because THEY ARE NOT REAL LEGAL NAMED FIXES.

If you want this to fail then it needs to fail on the merit of real, legitimate factual information. Not attitude.

flydrive

This is false, no mater how much you continue to deny it. The missing fix names are the IAFs that we select from in the FMS when the approach is loaded. By what logic is it "not a legitimate" safety concern that these fix designations are not printed on the charts?

pangolin

Incorrect. And this has nothing to do with supporting or not supporting the move to charts plus. If I was asked to vote yay or nay I would vote nay.

But let’s try to resolve this civilly and logically. Dig out your iPads and lets follow along.

Open the jepp app. Pull up MMMM.

Let’s look up the VOR DME 2 to RWY 5.

The “fixes” are inside brackets. [D238T] for example. There are numerous versions of these. 14 dme. 25 dme. Do you know how these are constructed? They are “short cuts” and they are not government approved fix names. TADKO is a fix. NAMTA is a fix. The [D184N] isn’t such a fix. You won’t find it in the database to go to it enroute. You CAN choose to go to it from within the FMS.

Once you understand how the names of these shortcuts are constructed then things start to get some clarity.

The D Is for DME. The number is the radial. The suffix letter is the dme distance. N is the 14th letter of the alphabet. It’s 14 DME. Y is the 25th letter so it’s 25 DME.

They are jepp shortcuts and they have been put into our FMS databases when the approach is selected. They ARE NOT “State” provided data or legal fixes and that’s my point. Charts plus doesn’t include them.

I do think this needs to be addressed but the FAA doesn’t care.

Knowing the scheme used for the fms names you CAN use charts plus for the approach. In reality you are always in bound on one of the paths and the Mexican controllers tell you report 14 dme. Well there are at least 4 14 dme fixes. They know when you report it you are on the path from NAMTA etc.

I’m not defending charts plus. I’m saying your criticism is not properly articulated when you say fixes are missing from the charts. They are not because they are not fixes.

OnFingers12345

NavBlue email = instant delete

backtoregionals

Nobody in this company from the pilot group to MEC to our POI wants these charts. There are only a small handful of pilots, management and our IAH CP who wants these.

Giant74Polar

The “fixes” are inside brackets. [D238T] for example. There are numerous versions of these. 14 dme. 25 dme. Do you know how these are constructed? They are “short cuts” and they are not government approved fix names. TADKO is a fix. NAMTA is a fix. The [D184N] isn’t such a fix. You won’t find it in the database to go to it enroute. You CAN choose to go to it from within the FMS.

Just request the "FULL" approach and don't accept any shortcuts, you get paid by the minute anyway. File ASAP report and make a few extra bucks in the process until you get Jepps back...

avi8tor614

I use NavBlue Chart+ on my trips and have my FO's use Jepps. I love Jepps but Charts+ is coming whether you like it or not. I find issues and wrong issues on BOTH sets of charts. The most recent was Jepp was and still is wrong on the ILS Z runway 30 approach. "I’ve attached ILS Z runway 30 for KVPS airport your DA is 269’ Jepps is 249’ who’s decision height is correct". I wrote this to NavBlue hoping they were wrong and yet scoring points for Jepp and I filed ASAP report. The response I got was this.

"Hi MESA,
​
Thank you for bringing this discrepancy to our attention. Upon investigation, we have found our chart is correct as per the latest FAA chart. The DA on the FAA ILS Z RWY 30 chart matches what we have on ours, along with the rest of the minimums. The Jeppesen chart is older (dated 22 MAR 19), which is probably the reason there is a difference in values with regards to the DA in the minima. We cannot say for sure why the Jeppesen chart differs from ours, but the Navblue chart is definitely correct as per the latest FAA information.
​
Kind regards,
Chris Egan
NAVBLUE Customer Experience
Hersham, England

So people that say Charts+ = delete aren't using all their resources and competent pilot trust but verifies, and YES BOTH APPS WERE CURRENT. I love and trust Jepps but the verification proved Jepps wrong. One of the pilots in our cockpits should be using Jepps and the other Charts+. I DON'T like CHARTS PLUS It's cluttered its messy and sometimes unorganized to me BUT I can use either one fluidly now because I been using them for months even on line checks now. Gives me an excuse if I mess up LOL

puddlejumper

We use NavBlue Charts+ at Air Wisconsin. VPS ILS Z 30 has a 249' MDA. I use FAA/NACO as a backup and they show the same. No NOTAMs or bulletins...

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avi8tor614

[QUOTE=puddlejumper;2941661]We use NavBlue Charts+ at Air Wisconsin. VPS ILS Z 30 has a 249' MDA. I use FAA/NACO as a backup and they show the same. No NOTAMs or bulletins...

NavBlue changed it lol, I guess they double checked again