Mesa Pilots - Why the Bad Rap? Warranted?
12-20-2017, 06:08 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
I don’t think it’s so much regional bashing in the way you think it is. The way I see it, there are some great people at Mesa. Unfortunately, due to poor management and a (still) substandard contract, there are also a lot of folks there that scarcely belong in an airliner. Therefore, people that are there seem like they have to defend their choice to go/stay there as if it’s seem sort of reflection on them.
The fact of the matter is that the job market has changed from what it was, and it really says a lot that anyone would go to Mesa today “because erj” or “because Houston” despite the staggering difference in QOL/benefits that you’ll get at pretty much any other regional. Domiciles are a weak reason to choose a company. When I was at mesa, they closed 6 bases within 2 years.
This isn’t about personal pride regarding which company is better, it’s about being straight with prospective new hires about what they’re getting in to, and not being an apologist for all the shenanigans that go on at Mesa. You will make less money, you will work more, and you will not be treated like a human being. And before you bring up the ability to pick up open time (looking at you calmwinds), that’s not a benefit. That’s doing extra work. You can’t say that the ability to work extra closes the gap with companies that have much better pay and work rules.
I don’t think anyone is going to say you’re less of a pilot for going to Mesa. I know a lot of awesome people there that I would recommend without question. What you do need to do is some real research as to what measurable benefits you can get from where you spend your time. Not to mention the very real fact that the airline you dream of moving up to DOES care who you worked for in the past, and the value of your experience. ALPA has published the figures of where the majors hire from. Give that a second look.
The fact of the matter is that the job market has changed from what it was, and it really says a lot that anyone would go to Mesa today “because erj” or “because Houston” despite the staggering difference in QOL/benefits that you’ll get at pretty much any other regional. Domiciles are a weak reason to choose a company. When I was at mesa, they closed 6 bases within 2 years.
This isn’t about personal pride regarding which company is better, it’s about being straight with prospective new hires about what they’re getting in to, and not being an apologist for all the shenanigans that go on at Mesa. You will make less money, you will work more, and you will not be treated like a human being. And before you bring up the ability to pick up open time (looking at you calmwinds), that’s not a benefit. That’s doing extra work. You can’t say that the ability to work extra closes the gap with companies that have much better pay and work rules.
I don’t think anyone is going to say you’re less of a pilot for going to Mesa. I know a lot of awesome people there that I would recommend without question. What you do need to do is some real research as to what measurable benefits you can get from where you spend your time. Not to mention the very real fact that the airline you dream of moving up to DOES care who you worked for in the past, and the value of your experience. ALPA has published the figures of where the majors hire from. Give that a second look.
Make less than other regionals? Tell me where we can go and credit 240 hours in a month. Even at our lower pay per hour, our pilots that want to earn more than pilots at other regionals can.
What shenanigans go on at Mesa these days? Unstacking? Stop looking in the rear view mirror.
12-20-2017, 06:23 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: Flaps & Ldg Gear Executive Director
Posts: 100
You don’t know what you are talking about. When did you last work here?
Make less than other regionals? Tell me where we can go and credit 240 hours in a month. Even at our lower pay per hour, our pilots that want to earn more than pilots at other regionals can.
What shenanigans go on at Mesa these days? Unstacking? Stop looking in the rear view mirror.
Make less than other regionals? Tell me where we can go and credit 240 hours in a month. Even at our lower pay per hour, our pilots that want to earn more than pilots at other regionals can.
What shenanigans go on at Mesa these days? Unstacking? Stop looking in the rear view mirror.
12-20-2017, 06:29 PM
#83
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Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
So basically what you're saying is that an FO on a first year rate, 38 an hour. He/she can credit 240 hours times 38, then times 12 months, making 109,000 a year. Plus per diem which may be around 6k a year. For a total of 115,000 gross income, plus 23k bonus, for a total of 138k a year. Woooow.
A smart FO can out earn an Endeavor FO any month of the year - even with their higher rate.
12-20-2017, 07:28 PM
#84
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Joined APC: May 2013
Position: Flaps & Ldg Gear Executive Director
Posts: 100
So, in the same token, according to what you're saying, there are captains in Mesa whose salary rate of 67 an hour (third year from APC) can credit 240 hours a month. 240 times 67, then times 12 months, making 193,000 a year. Plus per diem which may be around 6k a year. For a total of 199,000 gross income. Once again woooowwww
12-21-2017, 03:14 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
It is an amazing privilege to be able to furnish your house in a single month based on working extra. But, the QOL sucks. For some who don’t care about QOL, they love it.
My buddy at SkyWest sits at home on reserve in Seattle making the minimum. If Houston wasn’t so far, he would be jumping ship. He hates reserve but loves being at home (for those who say that being based at home is meaningless).
My buddy at SkyWest sits at home on reserve in Seattle making the minimum. If Houston wasn’t so far, he would be jumping ship. He hates reserve but loves being at home (for those who say that being based at home is meaningless).
12-21-2017, 03:17 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
So, in the same token, according to what you're saying, there are captains in Mesa whose salary rate of 67 an hour (third year from APC) can credit 240 hours a month. 240 times 67, then times 12 months, making 193,000 a year. Plus per diem which may be around 6k a year. For a total of 199,000 gross income. Once again woooowwww
And, there are CA’s making a boat load of money. Well over $100k.
Last edited by calmwinds; 12-21-2017 at 03:34 AM.
12-21-2017, 03:50 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
So basically what you're saying is that an FO on a first year rate, 38 an hour. He/she can credit 240 hours times 38, then times 12 months, making 109,000 a year. Plus per diem which may be around 6k a year. For a total of 115,000 gross income, plus 23k bonus, for a total of 138k a year. Woooow.
Not everyone likes this lifestyle: flying at the drop of a hat, always bumping up against 117 minimums and doing your 30 hour rest at outstations. Some view this lifestyle as exciting and some don’t. Some it works for, those who just want to get in and out just view it as a step in their career like their time teaching at a fligjt school.
12-21-2017, 04:09 AM
#89
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Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 774
To answer your question, I left a year ago. As far as shenanigans...my favorite is mx trying to classify grounding mel’s as something else an hoping you don’t notice. Or maybe clearing an Mel that clearly isn’t fixed so that when you write it up immediately again, they try and use the entire Mel interval as if it’s a new discrepancy. Or when they forget to book you in layover hotels. Or not booking scheduled deadheads. Maybe the stories you hear about the company withholding paychecks from people that leave (illegal regardless of training contracts, but they know you’re too poor to take it to court)...just to name a few. Maybe all of this hasn’t happened to you, maybe it doesn’t go on as much in iah, but it happens.
Last edited by Navmode; 12-21-2017 at 04:22 AM.
12-21-2017, 05:15 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,145
Once again, it’s no comparison to say that working your fingers to the bone and having no life at al, picking up every shrewd of open time thatl you can out earn what you would at another company where someone only has to do the minimum to make that much.
To answer your question, I left a year ago. As far as shenanigans...my favorite is mx trying to classify grounding mel’s as something else an hoping you don’t notice. Or maybe clearing an Mel that clearly isn’t fixed so that when you write it up immediately again, they try and use the entire Mel interval as if it’s a new discrepancy. Or when they forget to book you in layover hotels. Or not booking scheduled deadheads. Maybe the stories you hear about the company withholding paychecks from people that leave (illegal regardless of training contracts, but they know you’re too poor to take it to court)...just to name a few. Maybe all of this hasn’t happened to you, maybe it doesn’t go on as much in iah, but it happens.
To answer your question, I left a year ago. As far as shenanigans...my favorite is mx trying to classify grounding mel’s as something else an hoping you don’t notice. Or maybe clearing an Mel that clearly isn’t fixed so that when you write it up immediately again, they try and use the entire Mel interval as if it’s a new discrepancy. Or when they forget to book you in layover hotels. Or not booking scheduled deadheads. Maybe the stories you hear about the company withholding paychecks from people that leave (illegal regardless of training contracts, but they know you’re too poor to take it to court)...just to name a few. Maybe all of this hasn’t happened to you, maybe it doesn’t go on as much in iah, but it happens.
And, I am not thrilled with mx at times. We all have stories. I am certain United will not be a happy camper when their Ejets come back. I am shocked they aren’t doing some type of intermediate inspections to see if Mesa is keeping their aircraft in good order.
The hotel situation has improved for IAH at least, particularly since the new contract. We are now in the same hotels as Envoy in some cities instead of a sh*t hole.
The latest class action lawsuit regarding training contracts will determine the legality of Mesa withholding pay, since a clause in the training contract allows Mesa to withhold your last paychecks. The pilot signs the contract and should know the clause is in there. Plus, the training contract is only for a year. Most guys have to sit in the left seat for a year anyway before they move on.
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