chrisreedrules

I mean its actually pretty simple... Pilots dont like Mesa and don’t understand why pilots agree to work there considering:

1) Absolutely the worst health insurance in the industry. I looked at my friend’s plan (Mesa CA) and it is truly garbage.

2) Subpar pay and work rules. I know Mesa recently upped some of their compensation but it still doesn’t touch most of the other regionals.

3) It is true that many pilots who fail out of other airline training programs end up at Mesa. 2 of the pilots who failed out of my initial are now Mesa pilots.

4) The schedules are pretty terrible and you do not have any scheduling flexibility. Mesa will continue to try and staff their flying on reduced aircraft manning. As other regionals raise the bar to attract new pilots to their ranks, Mesa will keep trying to operate the aircraft it has with fewer and fewer pilots which means very few days off and an inability to swap trips.

5) There are other regionals with much quicker upgrade and much better career progression that are hiring like gangbusters right now.

6) With Endeavor now offering not only vastly superior compensation and work rules but also a positive space ticket to base if you miss your first flight, the commuting thing is super easy. Not to mention the AA WOs offer their pilots parity with mainline pilots for boarding priority on any AA branded flight.

7) Being a contract carrier and specifically one that puts itself between a, “rock and a hard place” when it comes to being able to attract pilots and stay profitable Mesa is more at risk than other regionals for losing its flying over the next few years.

8) There are statistics published about what legacy airlines the regional airlines lose pilots to. Mesa doesn’t send nearly as many pilots to mainline legacy carriers as other regional airlines.

deltajuliet

This thread has a lot of new guys who really don't have the background knowledge to comment, so I appreciate this post with its eye towards historical context. Because sure, the training department is fine, but we would be remiss to ignore the rich and sordid history of Mesa Air Group's unethical treatment of mainline partners and employees over the last few decades.

Since the early days of Larry Risley, the airline had a reputation for being stingy and low paying. It grew to prominence through a series of mergers and acquisitions that began in earnest during the 1980's. Some of those acquired airlines were casualties of the process and thoroughly gutted after getting bought for cents on the dollar (Aspen Airways).

As it grew, management had numerous pilot groups to deal with that were quickly unionizing. This was remedied in 2002 by the creation of Freedom. What was Freedom?
Mesa Air Group has also been a proud participant in numerous lawsuits, including getting sued by United 1997 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_A...ited_codeshare), by Aloha and Hawaiian in 2006 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_A...lated_lawsuits), and oddly enough trying to sue Delta, in Atlanta, around 2008 (MESA AIR GROUP INC v. DELTA AIR LINES INC | FindLaw). More recently, our union sued the company as well.

My favorite was the Aloha lawsuit. Essentially Mesa looked at its books for the purposes of investment or acquisition when the airline wasn't doing well. After saying "No thanks," the company turned around and illegally used that information to compete in Hawaii on the same routes, effectively killing Aloha. They successfully sued us for tens of millions of dollars, but not before we lost the same or more flying CRJ's at a loss around Hawaii.

Shenzen Airlines is another fun one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_A...npeng_Airlines We had a big falling out with a Chinese airline after trying to create a local joint venture with it. The wanted nothing to do with us after the fact.

Following all these shenanigans, Mesa was the object of a Congressional inquiry and heavily reorganized by a bankruptcy court. They found our CEO contracted with and outsourced to a lot of his own companies, and Mesa paid those companies handsomely for their services. Ask around about the Del Rio, the shady hotel he owned and put crews in. The bankruptcy court put a stop to all that, but many rumors exist on how he faced no legal prosecution. Earlier, he actually fled the country after illegal dealings on Wall Street. That's how he went to the UK for several years and got to be "good buddies" with Richard Branson. Supposedly his lawyer eventually reached a plea deal in which he could return with no jail time.

There is also an extensive history of mistreatment of employees. The company has always stalled negotiations as long as possible, and we were in negotiations for this recent TA for seven years. The only company I know that went longer was Republic, I think their management held out for eight.

Even after reaching a contract, the company fights tooth and nail to readjust the meaning of plain English. My favorite example of this was when we went into arbitration over 50-seat base pay. The company was paying pilots the far lower CRJ-200 rates for sick time, vacation, training, etc. While the contract never specified how that time would be paid, our union reasonably argued that there is only one spare CRJ-200 on property, and our 100+ other aircraft were all in the 76 seat range. It stands to reason we should be paid what nearly every aircraft on property reflects, and what we're normally paid for flying duties.

The story goes that they took a current PHX Captain who hated flying the line and had been part of those negotiations on the union's side, offered him a cushy desk job to say the understanding at the time favored the company's present position, and he did just that. The kicker is after it was all done, they sent him back to the line.

As our seniority list dwindled the last two years amidst stalled negotiations, low pay, and crew mistreatment, there were concerns raised about the caliber of pilot coming to the company. Why would anyone come here when they could make two or three times as much at almost any other regional? It became apparent we were getting the unwanted pilots who couldn't get hired anywhere else. People with DUI's, constant checkride busts, accidents, personality deficiencies, and various other skeletons. Many couldn't hack it at other regionals. There were (are) also the second career types who've just dinked around in Cessnas the last 30 years and want to fly a big boy jet; many of them haven't done the stereotype surrounding them any favors.

These people aren't everyone here, but they do exist, and in numbers far exceeding what most are comfortable with. Now Mesa pilots have a reputation of being low quality, and some legitimately worry about their prospects of getting hired anywhere besides Spirit.

None of this even begins to address the day to day grind of dealing with crew tracking, their attempts to junior assign you, shoddy maintenance, less days off, lower pay, bad hotels, and so much more. But hey, if you're not concerned about any of this, come give Mesa a try!

(Seriously, go through some old threads. The anti-Mesa sentiment is alive and well in threads over a decade old on this website)

journey2

1) Absolutely the worst health insurance in the industry. I looked at my friend’s plan (Mesa CA) and it is truly garbage.

Health insurance for 2018 has definitely gone up-it's not just Mesa. I had an awesome rate & coverage thru another company for 2016 & 2017 but will not for 2018.

3) It is true that many pilots who fail out of other airline training programs end up at Mesa. 2 of the pilots who failed out of my initial are now Mesa pilots.

I can think of this type of pilot at EVERY regional, not just Mesa. Even PSA has them. No one is perfect- pilots can have check ride failures or some kind of training issue, now even more so because a lot of the incoming pilots do not have experience beyond being a CFI. I think you will see training issues continue especially if the FAA allows the hours required to drop even lower.

8) There are statistics published about what legacy airlines the regional airlines lose pilots to. Mesa doesn’t send nearly as many pilots to mainline legacy carriers as other regional airlines.

I see Mesa as a "starter regional" and I'm sure others do too. A lot of F/Os get experience they need, then make a lateral move to a better regional such as Endeavor. The pay is not there to stay long enough to be a Captain, but some people will stay anyway for their own personal reasons.

Navmode

If anyone signs on with Mesa with the original intent to make a lateral move later, they’re aggressively ignorant. It’s attitudes like this that allow a company to even exist with such poor management, and such a substandard contract.

chrisreedrules

Are you kidding me!? “Starter Regional”? Stop kidding yourself. Your response is almost unreal.

I also like how you completely skip my other points as if you don’t have some equally ludicrous response.

calmwinds

Spoken by another pilot that knows nothing about Mesa except how to get a jump-seat on our airplanes. Just another troll.

Here is where a pilot at Mesa agrees with your observations:
1. If you are married with kids and need to rely on our health benefits, seriously consider someplace else.
2. $36 per hour for FO’s is pretty pitiful given where the industry is headed.
3. Mesa does seem to give guys a second chance when they come from another airline’s training program. (One of the reasons I think a few of our guys don’t end up at the majors).

Here is what is completely incorrect (at least on the Ejet in IAH):
1. As an FO, my schedule is great. Min Credit. Weekends and Christmas off. Schedules only suck where we are seriously short staffed. Right now, that is Ejet CA’s. (Which they are trying to remedy.) We have no reserve unless you want reserve or missed the deadline for bidding.
2. There is no other regional with a faster upgrade on the Ejet.
3. No one really has a clue financially how Mesa is doing. It is a private company.
4. There are no statistics about individual regionals and where they lose pilots to, unless the regional puts the statistics together.

Here is my additional thoughts:
1. For a Houston area pilot, there isn’t a better regional that doesn’t involved a commute. ExpressJet with their 9 year upgrade? SkyWest with their commute to ORD or DTW and then a transfer back after a year to sit on reserve? Then, 10 years before you can get back to IAH as a CA?
2. Some of our CA’s are crediting over 200 hours per month. Exceeding the pay at other regionals.
3. FO’s immediately get a line and can fly 90+ hours per month if they want to.

PC12Junkie

I’m going to call recruiting in the am to see if there are any open slots for this month(Dec). Worth a shot? I live in Houston myself and would love the Ejet.

Monocoupe

I completely agree. Mesa has been great to me. Yeah the company is shady in certain areas and the healthcare/pay is subpar..there's really no excuse for that except that it's a business trying to improve profit margins. As a regional pilot, your goal is to get the left seat, get your 1000 and get out. DEAL WITH IT. The guys at the Legacy's had to do it. Quit all your bytching you snowflakes. Mesa is what Mesa is. Don't like it? Leave.
I've cleared close to 70,000 this year as an FO. Sat reserve for 2 weeks. Upgrading at 21 months. Senior pilots at other gigs would have killed for this. Be thankful for a job and an economy/industry that is bustling unlike 9/11 and 08 eras

calmwinds

Give them a call. All they can say is you need to take a January class.

Shadre Reevis

Starter regional...