Top 1500 positions!
10-28-2008, 06:48 PM
#81
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Yeah, Delta had over 700 lucky ones, and NWA had just under 200...you might want to count how many airframes NWA had on property when your first new hire came aboard compared to Delta.
Couldn't be a difference in fleet plans, demographics, business, etc. Just pure luck.
Couldn't be a difference in fleet plans, demographics, business, etc. Just pure luck.
They got to the widebody seat by lucky timing. That's what this industry is, luck and timing. Some win, some lose, and some float around in purgatory their entire careers. You trying to argue that they timed getting hired into those seats is as ridiculous as the proposed lists that BOTH groups presented.
10-28-2008, 07:46 PM
#82
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
A greenliner is a 787. Sarcastic nickname due to the 787 being the first widebody on NW property since 1986 to be unaffected by fences and supplemental awards, thus allowing all the now senior green pilots to bid 787 Captain.
Many green book pilots would use this as an example of why DOH is important because conditions and restrictions are under constant attack after an SLI, but the combined list is rarely challenged.
Many green book pilots would use this as an example of why DOH is important because conditions and restrictions are under constant attack after an SLI, but the combined list is rarely challenged.
10-28-2008, 09:07 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Interesting... just what do you mean by that? Should an international widebody first officer at DAL shrug his shoulders and give his seat up to a NWA DC9 FO that got hired at NWA a year before? Why do you think this is fair? Are they pawns for YOU to make the dicision about? Well guess what cap'n... it's precisely this attitude that's going to drive a wedge between our groups.. I'm oh so looking forward to working with you.
This is where I think a lot of you DAL guys assumptions are wrong. You think all NWA new hires are stuck on the DC-9 as FO's. They are not. There are NWA new hires-- Fall '07, who are B-757 FO's. Many of the latest ones hired back in the spring of '08, can hold A-320 FO.
That NWA OCT '07 hires 757 FO seat potentially gets him to Amsterdam, London, Germany, Hawaii, and more cities in Asia than your "international wide body first officer at DAL" can shake a stick at.
So, please stop assuming that the junior NWA pilots are just stuck on the DC-9, they are not. If a NWA new hire goes ahead of a DAL new hire on the seniority list, there won't be the huge shock of all of a sudden being able to fly international that you seem to think there will be.
I am looking forward to flying with you guys as well, but I think it would be best that before we do, we educate ourselves about what the other side has availiable to it without this merger. If we do, maybe we will find that most of these disagreements on here are avoidable.
New K Now
10-28-2008, 09:22 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
By the way....
Flight Ops just posted:
19 retirements in October.
8 of them 330 CA's
6 of them 747-400 CA's
The rest 320 and 757 CA's.
Earlier this year, one of them told me he wanted to stay for a few more years. I gues he did the math and figured how much it would cost him.
Flight Ops just posted:
19 retirements in October.
8 of them 330 CA's
6 of them 747-400 CA's
The rest 320 and 757 CA's.
Earlier this year, one of them told me he wanted to stay for a few more years. I gues he did the math and figured how much it would cost him.
10-29-2008, 05:41 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position
Posts: 978
No bump no flush is a bandaid for the bigger wound. So you don't get bumped out of your seat, but lots of NWA guys come in on top of you and you go from lineholder to bottom reserve. A huge QOL issue.
10-29-2008, 05:54 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position
Posts: 978
isn't that what fences/no flush bid's are for?
why does a first year employee even get widebody FO right off the bat? isn't it because senior people don't actually want the position? I'm not bashing it, just stating it isn't always what everyone wants. It shouldn't give someone the right to leap frog over someone else at another company where it might be a more desirable position within that airline.
why does a first year employee even get widebody FO right off the bat? isn't it because senior people don't actually want the position? I'm not bashing it, just stating it isn't always what everyone wants. It shouldn't give someone the right to leap frog over someone else at another company where it might be a more desirable position within that airline.
10-29-2008, 06:00 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position
Posts: 978
Yeah, I'm sure they checked out the fleet plan, crunched some numbers, and figured out the perfect time to submit their resume. They got to the widebody seat by lucky timing. That's what this industry is, luck and timing. Some win, some lose, and some float around in purgatory their entire careers. You trying to argue that they timed getting hired into those seats is as ridiculous as the proposed lists that BOTH groups presented.
They got to the widebody seat by lucky timing. That's what this industry is, luck and timing. Some win, some lose, and some float around in purgatory their entire careers. You trying to argue that they timed getting hired into those seats is as ridiculous as the proposed lists that BOTH groups presented.
10-29-2008, 06:06 AM
#88
Get's Every Day Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,860
How So?
Me thinks if the seat (with its pay and QOL) is that junior, it will still be that junior after the merger. It goes junior for a reason. They are there now because someone senior to them didn't want to be for whatever the reason. So I don't see how it is a seniority hit. Are you assuming that NWA pilots are going to stampede an undesirable seat? If current DAL pilots don't value the position, I doubt any NWA pilots will value the seat either. We really arent that different you know. Fences or no bump/no flush should allow them to keep their junior seats from falling into NWA hands anyway. Junior is junior. If you've been on the property for roughly a year or a year and change, you are junior no matter who you fly for or what seat you occupy.
Last edited by ExAF; 10-29-2008 at 06:13 AM. Reason: added last 5 words.
10-29-2008, 06:09 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Trying to remember "Thrust Normal", "Checks", and something else besides "How are the rides today?"
Posts: 117
Just for Fun...
Everyone Please Step Back from the Punch Bowl. Too Much Kool Aid will leave you with a Huge Hangover and trying to figure out what you did last night.
Have a great day....Cheers
Everyone Please Step Back from the Punch Bowl. Too Much Kool Aid will leave you with a Huge Hangover and trying to figure out what you did last night.
Have a great day....Cheers
10-29-2008, 06:16 AM
#90
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
I think you are missing his point. We are all at our specific spot in the list or in a category by external influences beyond our control except our choice of which airline to try to get hired by. Much of it is luck but that is meaningless. In SLI negotiations, there should be no room for "why or how" We are where we are, period. Timing is everything. Don't hold that against anyone, NWA guys included.
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