Cogf16

No, I am arguing the merits of relative seniority. Obviously, seat position is widely disparate for many reasons. My point was about systemwide seniority and the how invalid and irrelevent the "hows and whys" argument is

johnso29

Cog,

You keep arguing for relative seniority and how DAL's proposed list is fair, but you still haven't told me how the last DAL pilot ending up with 400 guys underneath him is fair. I fail to see how he maintains his relative seniority. Looks like he gets a REALLY big bump to me. That's some convienent math.

Cogf16

I have said this on another thread also. I don't know our rationale behind the staple job but on the surface it seems unfair. Maybe we are projecting addl. DC-9 retirements. As oil plummets, I can see why this is probably flawed. I will say thought that maybe this is a place where we can compromise and come towars NWA's plan some. I believe however that our opening/current position is pretty close to our bottom line, with the exception of the bottom 400 and maybe a little for your nearterm retirements.

Cog

wiggy

"Potentially" gets him to Amsterdam..etc.---Isn't NW 757 a combined category? Doesn't the international flying go way senior? JFK ER flying is all (100%) international, with probably 90% across the Atlantic. This is actual flying, not "potential". I would venture to say that "DL 07' hire" actual international block hours flown exceeds by a wide margin the "NW 07' hire" actual or even potential international block hours flown. To compare NW newhires ability to fly international wide body with their counterparts at DL is quite a stretch. "More destinations than he can shake a stick at?" I think if you do a comparison of international destinations you'll find that....oh, thats right, nevermind, any destination south of Florida doesn't "count" as international ...I forgot that commonly accepted industry "rule" (we'll just pretend one of the Continents on our planet doesn't exist as an "international" destination)

johnso29

And why do you think those JFK slots are junior? Hmmm. Because it's JFK. And just because someone at NWA decided to stay on a narrowbody for better QOL does not justify making him junior. The high sought positions are awarded by seniority, which is determined by DOH.

dragon

What he said

tsquare

Friendly wager proposal:
I'll bet you a cold one that when cross pollination is allowed, there will be VASTLY bigger numbers of pilots bailing off the DC9 for the 767ER at the junior positions than vice versa.... and... there will be VASTLY more NWA pilots jumoing to DAL equipment than vice versa.

Superpilot92

I think you will see more people moving to different bases (excluding JFK *shivers*) but not because of the DAL equipment but because of OUR aircraft getting moved around to DAL bases. Of course there will be cross pollination in the long run, thats what happens in a merger but it will occur on both sides. Time will tell PS. I promise i wont bid JFK

Ferd149

Wiggy,

Yes, NW 757 guys "do it all" from Europe to Asia and all the domestic "stuff" in between.

I've never had a problem with the 767 guys calling themselves widebody guys as loing as I can call myself a longbody guy when I fly the 757-300 (224 seats).

Ferd

Ferd149

Cog,

I think you and I have about the same thinking on this issue. I've thought we would end up with some sort of ratio since almost day one.

The problem is with our "demographics." the ratio looks great on day one. Since we are (in general) older than you guys, we are trapped below a guy younger us. So, on day one the list looks ok. At year three, not so much and at year 5 it really starts to look bad.

Right now, as the old green guys retire we both move up somewhat. Then I retire below younger Delta guys and then Delta guys below me move up etc.

So, what is the answer? Don't know, but from what little I've heard we may actually be close.