tsquare

I don't think MOST of us are beating the drum about the demise of the whale. I hope those damn things as well as the diesel 9 are here until my elbows are touching wood. The thing is (at least for me) I have watched DAL now for 17 years, and seen all the 4 engine airplanes gone... now all the 3 engine airplanes are gone... and here we are getting more 4 engine airplanes again. If a twin engine airplane can do better than half the job the 4 engine one can do for half or less the cost, my money will ride on those aircraft going away. With fuel at $60/bbl... I would think the whales and 9s are safe. But if that price goes back to $140...$150... You can be sure those lifespans are limited. I don't know the number anymore than the next guy, but I can guarantee that the accountants in ATL know that number... down to the penny. It's no different on the decision they make to furlough or hire. It's not personal.. just business. For our part.. it's only conjecture and (as Carl likes to point out...) speculation. But it does make for an interesting discussion..

Ciao!

Reroute

After reading the transcripts, talking with a person who was actually there I believe the comment was geared towards the invented nonsense and fiction presented by NALPA. I particularly found where Bloch dismissed expectations arguments. That was clearly aimed at the bloated , unscientific expectations of attrition argument presnted by NALPA.

nwaf16dude

Clearly the dismissal of "expectations arguments" cuts equally into both side's arguments. You have your head in the sand if you don't see the arbitrators comments applying to the DAL proposal as well. There are plenty of ridiculous and obviously self-serving assumptions in the DAL proposal, most obviously in the staffing formulas and the assymetric treatment of the 767-400 and A330.

Cogf16

Carl,

We propose a 3 and 5 yr. fence for a small portion of widebody fleet. You propose a 10 yr. fence for the ENTIRE fleet. Very different and very unmanageable. Not realistic

Cog

nwaf16dude

So, any idea why the 5 year fence in the DAL proposal protects 767-400s, but not the larger A-330's? That's a huge sticking point for our side. That and the fact that the 3-5 year fence sets us up for a huge transfer of former NWA jobs to pre-merger DAL guys when our retirements kick in.

NWA320pilot

Interesting that you would say this as the NWA pilot that was in attendance that day said no other DAL pilots other than the required DALPA union reps were present that day.......

dragon

Sorry,

Just how are we defining the A330 as larger than the 767-400? Is it because it has a couple of extra seats or because some marketing genius at NWALPA decided it was "Super Premium"?

I think that we'll need some fences for a short period of time, but if we ever truly want to merge and avoid the red/green disaster that has hounded NW, we have to move on.

The comments by the arbitrators were against both sides. Of course I think he was really looking at NW but I might be biased.

nwaf16dude

OK, Ref the A330 vs 767-400...should not have used "larger." Certainly they are roughly equivalent, as recognized by the pay rates in the JCBA.

dragon

Thanks, would still love to know how the 7ER didn't qualify but ......

nwaf16dude

Yeah, I can't give you an answer on that one either. Probably a pretty good negotiating point...kind of like manning the 777 with twice as many captains per jet as the 747-400