Deez340

2000 is WAY off. See the info below copied from another thread.

"On both this forum and in personal conversations with NWA pilots I have found that they have been given some poor information about the Delta early retirements. Most are under the impression that Delta pilots gained thousands of numbers. Here are the actual numbers.

In the three years before we faced liquidity shortfall (10/1/2002 – 10/1/2005) we had about 2,200 pilots retire. About 1,450 of those pilots would have retired by December 2007 (when the FAA retirement age changed). Of those 750 left, about 250 were on long term disability. Of the 450 left, 100 would not be in the top 33% of our list today. Therefore, you are talking about 350 pilots that early retired that held active flying positions and would be in the top 33% on our list. A significant number but not the “thousands” that the Northwest pilots expect.

Note: Of the remaining 350 pilots some would have been lost to attrition so the actual number would even be a bit smaller."

If you think about it logically the Mass Exodus happened almost 4 years ago and as most of the guys balling early were in their late 50's anyway most would have been gone before "age 65 rule change" not to mention the merger announcement.

Deez

Superpilot92

Exactly!! Dynamic seniority keeps everyone on track via their current seniority progression. Sure the NWA guys move up sooner but at some point the NWA movement will slow and the DAL movement will blossom. Either way i hope this gets done soon so we can all move forward.

newKnow

Wide,

No need to apologize here. I like the DC-9, but I don't have to fly it. But, your posts and others seem to be resolved to the fact that the DC-9 is going away AND there wil be no replacement. So, when I see some guys on here talk of the -9 in a way in which it appears that they are willing to let it go without fighting to keep what it represents (100-125 seat market) as mainline flying, I think we all should be offended. Especially the junior guys and those that may be looking to apply later on; it's their Captain seat and initial new hire seat you are talking about being outsourced.

So yeah, the DC-9 is going away. It's old. But, what are we going to get to replace it? Letting management outsource it is NOT an option. Not because it is or is not beneficial to me or you, but because it is not beneficial to the profession.

Oh, the last I heard was that they were planning on keeping the DC-9's until the early 2020's. For real.

New K Now

DAWGS

If you were referring to my previous post about the -9's going away then you need to reread it. I am one of the biggest proponents of strong scope language. However IMO both of our groups have already let the 76 seaters out of the bag, which can hold 90 pax. Yours bring a little higher gross weight, ours greater numbers. Together we already allow 255 70-76 seaters. Can we lower these numbers? I have never seen scope tightened once you loosen. RA has already said compass is a great operation. They've been talking 100 seaters here for years and all I have seen is more of our flying go away and DCI growth explode. I think the writing is on the wall. Get rid of the -9's slowly, if oil prices allow and grow compass with the 76 seater. Delta will park 50 seat RJs, but I don't see anyone talking about parking 70+ seaters. Being junior, scope is very important to me. I just think it is obvious the -9's will go away, will they or what they will replace it with is the question. I will certainly stand right beside you and fight. I just know what has happened in the past. All it takes is a side letter in hard times and scope gets weakened futher. Management in our industry has done an outstanding job of chipping away at scope over the years. Believe me I share your views and I am with you brother. You are mistaken if you think any of us would seek to outsource flying.

Dawgs

varkdriver

This whole "slotted dynamic" seniority list just smells foul...this certainly is not a fence, but it never fully integrates the two employee groups into one harmonized list...or is there a drop dead date when the music stops and everyone takes a seat?

What are the true numbers of age 65 retirements....actual numbers for 2009, 2010....between NWA/DELTA..could someone post the projected list for each group?

Thanks....

On a side note...I think we at Delta could learn alot about who and what benefits exist with the NWA retirement. Not as great a deal for most from what I understand.

sailingfun

Dynamic seniority is great in concept but there are a lot of issues. DALPA did in fact agree to a dynamic seniority list proposed by NWA. It included however the business plans of both airlines relative to growth. When the concept was put onto paper and a list generated NWA changed there mind and pulled back their own proposal. One would have thought they would have modeled it before they threw it out there. If you are junior at NWA dynamic seniority is a career killer in the end game.
The other issue with dynamic seniority is what happens on the next merger? Almost impossible to craft a solution at that point.

ExAF

Let's worry about getting this merger done first. Hopefully there won't need to be another merger for the largest airline in the world.

B757200ER

You have no idea; everyone thinks they know what needs to be done, and critical, life-changing events are at stake. You have to trust your MEC reps because ALPA doesn't care; you cannot trust national ALPA to do anything but protect their own interests, not NWA pilots'.

You're right about the last comment----thank God AA didn't buy you!

sailingfun

This is my Third last merger! There will be another one before at least half the pilots retire from the current list. There may even be a small merger in the next 3 years. Think JetBlue or Alaska.

ExAF

I hear you. I know there will be other mergers, that part of my comment was meant TIC. The serious part of my comment was let's take care of this merger first and worry about the next one when it happens. Right now I'm concerned with the present merger and not any other.