Justdoinmyjob

You don't share when you accept "our" SLI, you share when the SLI is completed, no matter how. Wouldn't you rather start negotiating the joint contract payrates from the 7% addition than what they are now?

tsquare

I echo New K Now on this. The DAL MEC strategy was not illegal, it was (in my opinion) immoral.

Immoral? YGTBSM What on earth is immoral about negotiating with one's own company to better one's contract?


I hope at the very least the DAL MEC decision to pursue this strategy caused them extreme angst. It would have been a gut wrenching decision for me, and one that I could not have made. But make no mistake, your leverage at DAL has nothing to do with shrewd negotiating. It is simply the fact that both companies agreed that DAL would be the acquirer. Coupled with the fact that Mr. Anderson owes the DAL pilots for the successful defeat of the attempted hostile takeover, and you have leverage.

No.. that's not it at all.. It's that our scope clause would have required NWA to pull down international flying in order to be operated seperately. THAT was the leverage... it has nothing to do with the "fact" that he "owes us" that would have been a poor business decision on his part to negotiate that way. Especially in light of the fact that this industry is in SERIOUS trouble. But I digress... Since the SLI could not be agreed to, the company wanted to persue the merger. He needed our cooperation on the scope issue. Period. But all this is conjecture on my part, since the MEC hasn't presented us with anything, but I can actually read and think for myself... well sometimes anyway


Or as one DAL poster stated it: "We hold all the cards and it's even better when you know the dealer."

The plain truth is that if NWA were the acquirer, and we had decided to negotiate pay raises for just our side and generously agree to share with DAL when they agree to our seniority list formula, the outrage would be exactly the same.


Sadly among some, you are correct. But among those of us that can look past the emotion of the issue, we would see that the NWA deal would have nothing at all to do with our current position. But that's just my opinion. It's just business. All the best..

Carl Spackler

Deez,

Someone "kind" enough to post that there are 2000 DAL pilots over 50 isn't fact - it's just an internet post. It might be right, it might be wrong...I don't know. Our MEC says there is a significant age demographic issue - I don't know if they're right or wrong.

Please re-read my post that you quoted in your own post. Nowhere in it do I say "DALPA had no leverage other than goodwill." I know some folks post their opinions and try to pawn them off as fact, but you're not even reading your own posts.

I know that Anderson wasn't there at the time, that's not the point. Anderson owes the DAL pilots because the actions of the DAL pilots beat back a hostile takeover that would have been a disaster for Delta - in my opinion.

Please excuse that emotional outburst.

Carl

Carl Spackler

tsquare,

I appreciate your take on the actions of the DAL MEC. (But I could have done without the YGTBSM acronym). My opinion is that it is just spin. You must know how bad this smells.

But even if your take on the actions of the DAL MEC is accurate, then I respectfully offer a better solution:

Give DAL the Scope modification needed to allow NWA to continue flying international routes. In return, accept pay raises for just the Delta pilots. Are you liking it so far?? Then if a SLI is still being negotiated at the time of the merger's closing, place all Delta pay raise funds into escrow for distribution to ALL pilots when the SLI is complete. That way nobody senses a gun to their heads during negotiations, and the combined contract begins from a raised bar.

Carl

757Driver

Perhaps, I've been known to post over there.

Funny how the self-congratulatory crowd is facing a little dissension from the NWA guys.

I still haven't heard one good reason why you would picket in front of your fellow aviators and what purpose it would serve.

Perhaps its time for the NWA's to picket your hubs?

tsquare

One question then... What are the NWA pilots bringing to the party?

newKnow

Ya know...

Getting you guys to admit that your MEC might possibly have made even the tinniest mistake is harder than pulling teeth.....FROM AN ELEPHANT!!!

Did you sign a pledge not to ever question what your union or CEO ever says?

(You'd rather begin the whole what is NWA bringing to the party argument?)

Come on.

Letting the other MEC -- who represents pilots that you will be working with in a year or so --know that you are clearing the way for the merger.

Legally required & binding? No.

Common courtesy & "the right thing to do?" Hell yes!!

Let's just remember that we are all still pilots, no matter who we work for.

-We went to the same schools
-Were in the same squadron;
-Were flight instructors and students for each other;
-Pay dues to the same union;
-Strike for and pay into the same strike fund to support strikers, and more ect.

The only reason we are at our particular airline is because they hired us there first.

If you can't get off your horse and admit that we SHOULD have a loyalty to each other as pilots first, then it's going to be a long merger integration.

Your MEC was wrong not to tell the NWA MEC that they were going to make the deal. Period.

Respectfully,

New K Now

Jay5150

Maybe so New, maybe so .... but really,

Would it have changed anything as far as where we stand today?

I mean say that DALPA did that, and NWALPA would most assuredly have said "well, we don't like that one bit." Unless there was some big shift in either side's vision of a fair SLI, we'd still be right here. DALPA feels this thing is going through with or without either MEC, so let's raise the starting point for the eventual joint contract. I mean we can't negotiate anything for the NW guys as long as there is no SLI. I realize that you already know this, just rambling...

On a different tack...

**disclaimer, this is just my opinion**

It has been posted on here somewhere about the number of NW guys living in or near DAL bases and vice versa. The numbers were very heavily weighted towards the NW guys living in or near DAL bases.

I would think that if these numbers are anywhere close to being correct,(could be researched, the respective unions know all their guys home addresses) that even if you guys were to get what in your opinion would be an unfavorable SLI, the net effect would be a pretty big windfall for those of you who wanted to stay in MSP or DTW as your guys bailed out to ATL or LAX and maybe even SLC or NYC. And for those that do move out of MSP and DTW, well they just made their QOL much better. Not to mention the fact that you guys are now picking from a much larger widebody and destination pot. Again, I realize that it's an assumption but one that I'd be willing to put money on. (in fact I think that this issue maybe the one that has the ATL DAL guys most worried. They see a future with hundreds of new guys in the crew lounge in Mecca asking where to buy ice fishing gear)

Just saying that I'm trying to think "big picture" and the way this thing will probably play out real world and not focusing on "my hire date is '95 and yours is '99 so I refuse to be behind you no matter what the net real world effect will be."

We've (or our MEC's) have already cost us a big chunk of pie by not hashing this thing out. I think it's time to start being realistic on what the end result will be instead of focusing on, what I think maybe largely small details.

Before anyone lights me up, I know that seniority is no small detail. I just think that in this particular merger, and the way it will likely play out, that the amount that one list may move up or down is not as significant as many are making it out to be.

(now if RA and company announce the parking of all -9's, -200's, and half the -88's, disregaurd the above. kidding.)

Respectfully,

Jay

newKnow

Then the fight will be on.

But as for the first part of your post, I commend you. Yours is probably the first post I've seen on here that slightly acknowledges that your MEC might have been wrong. Thanks.

As for the later part of the post, that may be true about NWA pilots living close to DAL bases. As far as Atlanta, there are a lot of NW pilots there. But, they are old (no offense, guys) Republic pilots. They've got two pensions and I doubt they would stick around to fly for Delta. The ones I know can't wait to leave.

We'll see how this pays out. But, once again, it hasn't started out good.

Good luck.

Respectfully,

New K Now

newKnow

I did want to answer this question.

Would it have changed things if your MEC had at least notified our MEC of their intentions?

ABSOLUTLEY.

Maybe not as far as Delta pilts having a contract, the merger going through, and NWA pilots not being happy. But, it would have at least let us as NWA pilots know that you were being up front with us. That there was nothing going on behind closed doors. That eventually we would be on the same side.

For us to find out about the "deal" thru the press was not a good thing.

If your MEC had notified our MEC, right now you would have about 5,000 NWA pilots, who would be agressively pushing for an agreement to be made.

Now what you have is a large percentage of NWA pilots who are not happy and their displeasure is not with the NWA MEC, it's with Delta. Not a good way to start a merger.

I'll just leave it at that.


I wish us all luck. But, understand that first impressions go a long way.

Respectfully,

New K Now