NWA ALPA's Take on the Merger
04-16-2008, 02:46 PM
#71
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 62
NEW,
Understand that the DAL MEC does not need to inform the NWAPLA that they intend to modify THEIR contract. This LOA is not the contract that the combined pilots will work under. A new JOINT contract will be negotiated.
This deal was necessary based on the current contracts restrictive scope clause. Should the DAL MEC just modify this portion of the contract with no returns?
Is it necessary to give notice to NWALPA for every move the DAL MEC makes. You nor I know the intent of the permit. According to RA and EB, the pilots were reasonably close to striking a deal. Do you suppose that if needed those permits could have been beneficial for ALL of us to have. Maybe the permits were to send a signal to the DAL and NWA managements about the outcome of their negotiations with the DAL MEC for changes in OUR contract.
The DAL MEC is not the out to get anyone, especially the future pilots to join DAL.
Understand that the DAL MEC does not need to inform the NWAPLA that they intend to modify THEIR contract. This LOA is not the contract that the combined pilots will work under. A new JOINT contract will be negotiated.
This deal was necessary based on the current contracts restrictive scope clause. Should the DAL MEC just modify this portion of the contract with no returns?
Is it necessary to give notice to NWALPA for every move the DAL MEC makes. You nor I know the intent of the permit. According to RA and EB, the pilots were reasonably close to striking a deal. Do you suppose that if needed those permits could have been beneficial for ALL of us to have. Maybe the permits were to send a signal to the DAL and NWA managements about the outcome of their negotiations with the DAL MEC for changes in OUR contract.
The DAL MEC is not the out to get anyone, especially the future pilots to join DAL.
04-16-2008, 02:56 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Commuinication is the key to trust, agreed. However, Do you feel you are being communicated to by your MEC? Are you sure they weren't informed? If I remember correctly, the picketing rumors started before the permits were optained. Perhaps they knew and didn't pass on that info
04-16-2008, 03:00 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
NEW,
Understand that the DAL MEC does not need to inform the NWAPLA that they intend to modify THEIR contract. This LOA is not the contract that the combined pilots will work under. A new JOINT contract will be negotiated.
This deal was necessary based on the current contracts restrictive scope clause. Should the DAL MEC just modify this portion of the contract with no returns?
Is it necessary to give notice to NWALPA for every move the DAL MEC makes. You nor I know the intent of the permit. According to RA and EB, the pilots were reasonably close to striking a deal. Do you suppose that if needed those permits could have been beneficial for ALL of us to have. Maybe the permits were to send a signal to the DAL and NWA managements about the outcome of their negotiations with the DAL MEC for changes in OUR contract.
The DAL MEC is not the out to get anyone, especially the future pilots to join DAL.
Understand that the DAL MEC does not need to inform the NWAPLA that they intend to modify THEIR contract. This LOA is not the contract that the combined pilots will work under. A new JOINT contract will be negotiated.
This deal was necessary based on the current contracts restrictive scope clause. Should the DAL MEC just modify this portion of the contract with no returns?
Is it necessary to give notice to NWALPA for every move the DAL MEC makes. You nor I know the intent of the permit. According to RA and EB, the pilots were reasonably close to striking a deal. Do you suppose that if needed those permits could have been beneficial for ALL of us to have. Maybe the permits were to send a signal to the DAL and NWA managements about the outcome of their negotiations with the DAL MEC for changes in OUR contract.
The DAL MEC is not the out to get anyone, especially the future pilots to join DAL.
You and I both know that the DAL MEC was not required to notify NWA's MEC anything. I agree with that whole heartedly. But, out of respect it would have been the right thing to do. Can't you agree with that?
SLI problems? Sure fight all you want.
Negotiating with DAL management to allow the merge to go thru. Best to at least notify your future "brothers and sisters" on what you are doing. Right?
New K Now
04-16-2008, 03:43 PM
#74
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I echo New K Now on this. The DAL MEC strategy was not illegal, it was (in my opinion) immoral. I hope at the very least the DAL MEC decision to pursue this strategy caused them extreme angst. It would have been a gut wrenching decision for me, and one that I could not have made. But make no mistake, your leverage at DAL has nothing to do with shrewd negotiating. It is simply the fact that both companies agreed that DAL would be the acquirer. Coupled with the fact that Mr. Anderson owes the DAL pilots for the successful defeat of the attempted hostile takeover, and you have leverage. Or as one DAL poster stated it: "We hold all the cards and it's even better when you know the dealer."
The plain truth is that if NWA were the acquirer, and we had decided to negotiate pay raises for just our side and generously agree to share with DAL when they agree to our seniority list formula, the outrage would be exactly the same.
Carl
The plain truth is that if NWA were the acquirer, and we had decided to negotiate pay raises for just our side and generously agree to share with DAL when they agree to our seniority list formula, the outrage would be exactly the same.
Carl
04-16-2008, 04:27 PM
#75
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 57
I echo New K Now on this. The DAL MEC strategy was not illegal, it was (in my opinion) immoral. I hope at the very least the DAL MEC decision to pursue this strategy caused them extreme angst. It would have been a gut wrenching decision for me, and one that I could not have made. But make no mistake, your leverage at DAL has nothing to do with shrewd negotiating. It is simply the fact that both companies agreed that DAL would be the acquirer. Coupled with the fact that Mr. Anderson owes the DAL pilots for the successful defeat of the attempted hostile takeover, and you have leverage. Or as one DAL poster stated it: "We hold all the cards and it's even better when you know the dealer."
The plain truth is that if NWA were the acquirer, and we had decided to negotiate pay raises for just our side and generously agree to share with DAL when they agree to our seniority list formula, the outrage would be exactly the same.
Carl
The plain truth is that if NWA were the acquirer, and we had decided to negotiate pay raises for just our side and generously agree to share with DAL when they agree to our seniority list formula, the outrage would be exactly the same.
Carl
I am prone to beleive that if the tables were turned, I don't think for one minute your union wouldn't have done the same thing. With all due respect, would you honestly have not wanted your union to try to secure better pay and work rules for you given the chance. This LOA doesn't change anything for some time to come. That can be another 6 to 8 months. There is still plenty of time to agree to an SLI, so that we all reap the benefits at the same time. Let's make some noise on both sides to make sure that meetings between both sides are starting immediately, if not already.
04-16-2008, 04:37 PM
#76
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
flyguy,
In all honesty, I would have been extremely disappointed in my elected reps if they had done this. Would they have done it? We'll never know. I would have been disgusted with them if they had. Just my opinion.
Our MEC now sees this as the same poisonous atmosphere possibility as you folks saw with the hostile takeover attempt by USAir/AWA. You successfully beat them back. It looks like our MEC wants to beat this one back.
Carl
In all honesty, I would have been extremely disappointed in my elected reps if they had done this. Would they have done it? We'll never know. I would have been disgusted with them if they had. Just my opinion.
Our MEC now sees this as the same poisonous atmosphere possibility as you folks saw with the hostile takeover attempt by USAir/AWA. You successfully beat them back. It looks like our MEC wants to beat this one back.
Carl
04-16-2008, 04:45 PM
#77
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 57
flyguy,
In all honesty, I would have been extremely disappointed in my elected reps if they had done this. Would they have done it? We'll never know. I would have been disgusted with them if they had. Just my opinion.
Our MEC now sees this as the same poisonous atmosphere possibility as you folks saw with the hostile takeover attempt by USAir/AWA. You successfully beat them back. It looks like our MEC wants to beat this one back.
Carl
In all honesty, I would have been extremely disappointed in my elected reps if they had done this. Would they have done it? We'll never know. I would have been disgusted with them if they had. Just my opinion.
Our MEC now sees this as the same poisonous atmosphere possibility as you folks saw with the hostile takeover attempt by USAir/AWA. You successfully beat them back. It looks like our MEC wants to beat this one back.
Carl
You know Carl, I think if the Delta MEC thought we could have fought this, they probably would have too. Good luck, I really hope things work out for everyone.
04-16-2008, 05:35 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
I echo New K Now on this. The DAL MEC strategy was not illegal, it was (in my opinion) immoral. I hope at the very least the DAL MEC decision to pursue this strategy caused them extreme angst. It would have been a gut wrenching decision for me, and one that I could not have made. But make no mistake, your leverage at DAL has nothing to do with shrewd negotiating. It is simply the fact that both companies agreed that DAL would be the acquirer. Coupled with the fact that Mr. Anderson owes the DAL pilots for the successful defeat of the attempted hostile takeover, and you have leverage. Or as one DAL poster stated it: "We hold all the cards and it's even better when you know the dealer."
The plain truth is that if NWA were the acquirer, and we had decided to negotiate pay raises for just our side and generously agree to share with DAL when they agree to our seniority list formula, the outrage would be exactly the same.
Carl
The plain truth is that if NWA were the acquirer, and we had decided to negotiate pay raises for just our side and generously agree to share with DAL when they agree to our seniority list formula, the outrage would be exactly the same.
Carl
Yesterday you were saying that Delta had less than 100 pilots over the age of 50. Someone was kind enough to post that the number and it was over 2000. Now you say DALPA had no leverage other than goodwill from RA over the US Air beat back, yet RA was not here then and DALPA's leverage came from scope language in our contract that had to be changed in order for the deal to be pursued. I know things are uncertain now but you seem to be way long on emotion and short on facts. Do really think it's in your/your coworkers' best interest to fight this and not work together to make it as good as possible.
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