NWA ALPA's Take on the Merger
04-18-2008, 12:53 PM
#141
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Eric
From another thread you said:
"they chose only to look out for the original delta pilots not the up and coming delta pilots. I say this because it only takes effect once the merger goes through. at that same time all nwa pilots become delta pilots. you have to ask youself what did the delta pilots gain from this. it's leverage to hold over the nwa pilot in regards to the SLI. I'm not sure how this will play out but they also added a no furlough clause for their side only."
Absolutely False.
The pilot groups become one when a SLI is either agreed upon or arbitrated, and we begin working under a joint contract. The date that the merger goes through has nothing at all to do with it.
With regards to your last statement, the DAL MEC has absolutely no authority to negotiate anything for the NW guys right now. They could no more get them money, or work rules or equity or anything else any more than they could for the local Steel Workers Union.
You went on to say that DAL shouldn't have relaxed their scope and "damaged" this merger, I think is what you said. The DAL MEC believes that this merger is going through with or without pilot approval and with or without those contract changes. The LOA has to do with extracting value now (and not parking international airplanes by the way) so that the end result is a better joint contract for all of us. Not some sort of screw job for NW guys. How could it be? They are working under the exact same contract that they were before all this started. They won't be on a B-scale. We are 2 seperate pilot groups. The day that we are not, the joint contract goes into effect and everybody is paid the same rates.
From another thread you said:
"they chose only to look out for the original delta pilots not the up and coming delta pilots. I say this because it only takes effect once the merger goes through. at that same time all nwa pilots become delta pilots. you have to ask youself what did the delta pilots gain from this. it's leverage to hold over the nwa pilot in regards to the SLI. I'm not sure how this will play out but they also added a no furlough clause for their side only."
Absolutely False.
The pilot groups become one when a SLI is either agreed upon or arbitrated, and we begin working under a joint contract. The date that the merger goes through has nothing at all to do with it.
With regards to your last statement, the DAL MEC has absolutely no authority to negotiate anything for the NW guys right now. They could no more get them money, or work rules or equity or anything else any more than they could for the local Steel Workers Union.
You went on to say that DAL shouldn't have relaxed their scope and "damaged" this merger, I think is what you said. The DAL MEC believes that this merger is going through with or without pilot approval and with or without those contract changes. The LOA has to do with extracting value now (and not parking international airplanes by the way) so that the end result is a better joint contract for all of us. Not some sort of screw job for NW guys. How could it be? They are working under the exact same contract that they were before all this started. They won't be on a B-scale. We are 2 seperate pilot groups. The day that we are not, the joint contract goes into effect and everybody is paid the same rates.
when the merger goes through they will be delta pilots just working under their old contract. there will be 2 separate lists but nwa will no longer exist.
I never said that delta should damage the merger. I said that if they didn't loosen scope then it probaby would have prevented it or could have damaged it by having to park the nwa widebodies. it was never ment to sound like you "should" go out and damage it. if that's what it came across like sorry.
in my mind that was a tremendous amount of leverage that you had. much more than you got in return. I get why it was done, for leverage. delta now holds just about all of the cards in the negociations. the sad thing is the only card nwa has left to play is the opposition/disruption card. that's the screw job to the nwa pilots. delta got the main things in the joint contract that were offered to both groups. pay and equity. your basically telling nwa that they have to give into your idea of a fair SLI to get those things. whether its fair has yet to be determined. delta thinks it is but nwa doesn't.
04-18-2008, 01:09 PM
#143
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 330 FO
Posts: 584
How could Delta park say, MD-88's, and furlough guys off of the NW list, and vice versa. They are seperate groups.
Delta can't park airplanes and furlough United 737 FO's. You get this concept right? If NW wants a no furlough clause, then right now they would have to negotiate it for themselves.
p.s. no furlough clauses aren't worth the paper they are written on anyway from my experience of just under 5 years on the street
04-18-2008, 01:12 PM
#144
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 330 FO
Posts: 584
if the delta mec has no authority to negociate for the nwa pilots why did they get new pay scales for the nwa equipment as someone is posting on another thread. you say they have to wait until a joint contract is in place. if that is the case then why negociate those pay rates because its not part of a joint contract but yours? is it a carrot?
No SLI = No joint contract = we are seperate as of now and negotiate as such
04-18-2008, 01:15 PM
#145
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 330 FO
Posts: 584
What contract you operate under and not what your company is called.
04-18-2008, 01:16 PM
#146
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Prior to an SLI the NW guys are NorthWest, subject to the NW PWA and operated as an independant and separate carrier. Only after an SLI are they Delta. Seems to me that you are saying, prior to an SLI, if NW decides to park the -9s and furlough, then a DL pilot should be let go. That makes about as much sense as a CAL pilot being let go if AA decides to furlough.
Now, if the NW MEC believes that furloughs are a real possibility, then it would behoove them to either make a deal with THEIR management (ie Steenland,) or better yet, come back to the negotiating table and work out a JOINT contract with the DL pilots which would then protect their constituents.
One other factor here that comes to mind, once there is an SLI, the NW MEC would most likely be disbanded and the new DL MEC, comprising all LECs, would probably be led by a Deltoid, not necessarily Moak, but their posturing could be a tactic to remain in power.
Now, if the NW MEC believes that furloughs are a real possibility, then it would behoove them to either make a deal with THEIR management (ie Steenland,) or better yet, come back to the negotiating table and work out a JOINT contract with the DL pilots which would then protect their constituents.
One other factor here that comes to mind, once there is an SLI, the NW MEC would most likely be disbanded and the new DL MEC, comprising all LECs, would probably be led by a Deltoid, not necessarily Moak, but their posturing could be a tactic to remain in power.
your cal vs. AA furlough doesn't hold water. those are competing companies and delta and nwa won't be anymore.
04-18-2008, 01:20 PM
#147
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 330 FO
Posts: 584
I'll hold my tounge on this until we see what each sides respective positions were at the table. It may be that the NWA guys need look no further than their negotiators to see where the "screw job" came from and how their leverage evaporated. Maybe..... I haven't seen what was offered and we may never see.
04-18-2008, 01:23 PM
#148
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Position: 330 FO
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04-18-2008, 01:29 PM
#149
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Posts: 2,002
How else could it be? If we are seperate groups, and NW parks airplanes, NW guys get furloughed. If DAL parks, DAL guys get furloughed.
How could Delta park say, MD-88's, and furlough guys off of the NW list, and vice versa. They are seperate groups.
Delta can't park airplanes and furlough United 737 FO's. You get this concept right? If NW wants a no furlough clause, then right now they would have to negotiate it for themselves.
p.s. no furlough clauses aren't worth the paper they are written on anyway from my experience of just under 5 years on the street
How could Delta park say, MD-88's, and furlough guys off of the NW list, and vice versa. They are seperate groups.
Delta can't park airplanes and furlough United 737 FO's. You get this concept right? If NW wants a no furlough clause, then right now they would have to negotiate it for themselves.
p.s. no furlough clauses aren't worth the paper they are written on anyway from my experience of just under 5 years on the street
I guess here's some more rhetoric from what I have gathered. what prevents delta from parking an airbus or 9 instead of an md80 or 757vs757. it's called whipsawing just like what happened with mesa/freedom or trans states/gojets. two different operating certificates (one company) and yet they grew one and shrank the other.
04-18-2008, 01:33 PM
#150
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
[QUOTE=Jay5150;367874]Isn't that what matters to your daily life?
What contract you operate under and not what your company is called.[/QUOTE]
I would agree and also throw in bases. living in base makes life much more enjoyable
What contract you operate under and not what your company is called.[/QUOTE]
I would agree and also throw in bases. living in base makes life much more enjoyable
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