7576FO

[quote=Xray678;313446]I have never cared if a pilot from another airline is merged in senior to me as long as the job they bring to the table is senior to me.

Really, get back to us after your merger!

Let's just see what you have to say then.
7576

aa73

You're missing my point... not talking about the amount of pilots who should be taken, but rather on the abrogation of seniority. How about in seniority order, for starters. After all, this was an ALPA-ALPA merger. I would venture that you would also be ticked off at the unfairness of a deal that gives a pilot junior to you an integrated number at the new airline, while you hit the street.

Xray678

Hmm, an ALPA-ALPA merger. What does ALPA policy say about DOH......uh nothing. Not in there.

In the example of Delta-Pan Am, you would have us take the senior most pilots from Pan-Am, even though their equipment was not coming over, and then give them DOH, putting almost all of them in a Delta captain seat on equipment bigger than what they brought over in the merger?

aa73

Never said anything about giving them DOH.... I just think think that seniority should have dictated who came over and who didn't - NOT aircraft type. That is an abrogation of seniority, and ALPA should have fought that tooth and nail. Who cares if they are not on the equipment, the union's job should be to preserve seniority.

ToiletDuck

I still don't see why pilots from another airline should be forced above someone else. Everyone looks after their own interest in that aspect. How many countless company mergers in other industries happen where a company is bought and the executives as well as other personnel are all fired off.

jdt30

Were you a management major, or do you just read too much Ayn Rand? The point of the policy is to protect jobs, and to try merge the list as fairly as possible. If CAL merges with UAL I fully expext to have thousands placed above me on the seniority list. I just hope that I'm not out on my rear.

5030N

The fervent prayer of every junior pilot during a merger.

It ought to be printed on a laminated card and distributed by ALPA, along with the emergency contact info.

Best of luck.

RogAir

You will know if the two airlines have done the merger successfully if all pilots are equally unhappy--sad, but true.

Oldfreightdawg

What about a merger between two non-ALPA carriers? Thanks to ALPA we have ALPA's merger policy enacted into law. Why don't you go ask the furloughed USAir pilots with 15 years seniority how they feel about ALPA's merger policy? AND, we have to ask ourselves were TWA would have had if DAL or CAL bought them. APA gets a bad rap, but we forget that NWA - Republic arbitration had guys fist fighting in ops areas.

ALPA did this for one reason: to preserve the "institution" of ALPA, they did it with the help of ATA and Aircon. Strange bedfellows don't you think?

FliFast

Where would TWA be in they merged with DAL or CAL.

Why would it be any different than how they merged with Ozark ?


APA gets a bad rap, because they unquestionably deserve it for the arrogance towards the TWA pilots and for their stupidity to play into Don Carty's goal of "dividing and conquering".
"Nordstrom pilots vs. Kmart pilots.
Hot Dog Vendors vs. Pro Ball Players
We screwed you because we could"

Statements issued by the APA (not AMR Mgmnt.) towards the TWA pilot group.

Lastly, fist fights in ops area..hmmm. I've said it before, I'll say it again. The face of the TWA pilot's before the recalls started was the part of the iceberg above water. They were the former OZ pilots that were given DOH back in 1986 by the TWA pilots. They are happy individuals. Why ?
They have jobs with AA, they get to live in Ozark's hometown-St. Louis and they got to see the demise of TWA. Very, very few non-Ozark pilots remained after the mass redtail extermination.

Now for the bottom of the iceberg, the pilots that you haven't met on the property. The pilots that are currently going through recall and hope to be recalled soon...who are they ?

They were narrow body Capts hired back in 1988 (20 years ago), they were senior widebody F/Os, they were check airman, they were pilot supervisors...and yes, the seats they were ejected from in STL were now occupied by NAAtive pilots hired in 2001 and then 2000. So tell me, of the large chunk of pilots below the iceberg do you really think they are going to be a happy group...HELL NO.

The APA, their members, and especially Darrah, E.White and the rest of their group will be the ones blamed for 5-7 years of furlough. It will be interesting to see when all the redtails are called back what the mood in the cockpits, ops rooms, layover bar, etc. will be.

There has already been at least one fist fight between a TWA Capt. and an AA pilots before the furloughes. Now after 5-7 years on the street, I'm sure tempers will flare when the inevitable discussion about hot dog vendors, who was "acquired because they didn't have what it takes to get "hired", and on and on.

If you can't figure out why Congress became involved in a labor issue in a deregulated industry, then wake up and smell the coffee. AMR and Don Carty testified before Congress and assured them and the TWA employees that they would integrated fairly. Didn't we have certain baseball players testify before Congress under oath also about steriods.

Like many airlines after 9/11, mass layoffs ensued. Except at AA, the AA unions made sure that in the event of layoffs, almost all the TWA employees would be laid off and in the case of our F/Attds. the union would not lobby for unlimited recall rights. Within a few years the City of St. Louis and the airport were faced with tens of thousands of unemployed workers...do you need anymore reasons for Congress to get involved ?

We always expect to be screwed by managment...the Lorenzos, the Icahns, Ornstein and the list goes on, for sure. But when a mass screwjob is orchestrated by employees against other employees it is beyond words. The lack of professionalism displayed by the APA was the genesis of this merger legislation.

I've sat on the sideline for this thread, but it's clear how SOME (not all), but some members of the APA tout how Congress should mind their own business and how the TWA pilot's are just lucky to have AA uniforms in their closets albeit with 5-7 years of dust on them.

FF