Skyone

So to take your logic a bit furthur, there should never be any startups. In your carrier, how many startups have actually made it? And of those, how many are union now. If my memory serves me correctly startups from lets say 1975 FedEx-Union, UPS-Union, SWA-Union, AirTran(ValuJet)-Union, World-union, JetBlue-NonUnion, AirAtlants(gone)-union, NYAir&People's both morphed into CAL-union now. I would even call CAL a startup after Lorenzo.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I can't think of too many startups that come out of the gate with an outstanding contract negotiated by a union but may eventually do so. Perhaps if you want these folks at the upstarts to see it "your" way with a union then a little more sharing of what the benefits are. For me, over 100k dues money and assesments over 25 years. But then "my" union voted to not object to the termination of my retirement benefits and didn't even file a grievance when my former employee decided it didn't have to pay unqualified benefits. Won't even take phone calls from retirees-"email only please". Helped give me a good career but "my" union has really let me down when needed most.

And you *****ing about the "its all about me attitude" is a little strange. Isn't that what you are doing trying to protect your good gig now that you have made it to today's top? It's market forces, and sure hope you are driving and buying ONLY made in USA and adhering to the APLPA "Don't Buy List". And I hope you are shunning and calling neighbors and friends at task for driving Toyotas and Hondas (even if they provide US jobs). You have set up a hard road to follow Lime Face. Let us know how you are doing with the US made/union only label. Better check those shoes you are wearing, probably Made in China.

CE750

Frankly, if you ask me there are WAY too many pilots out there, mainly due to the BS medical and physical requirements and standards that we ALL know are BS. I mean you have people (read women) that cannot physically manipulate the controls especially in degraded modes of an aircraft (good example, is DC/MD 11/10) flying them out there now.. you have people that are seriously over weight, or have borderline vision, high blood pressure, multiple busted checkrides, etc.. Fact is, we could use a thinning out of the pilot supply pool.. I wish these pilot farms would also go out of business. I learned to fly at a mom and pop school where maybe there were 3 instructors (usually high time ATP's) working and 6-8 students at a time.. These 200 student mills that charge an arm and a leg, and provide marginal CFI's with hardly 500 hours are a big part of the problem at the supply end.

Velocipede

Heck, I don't mind start ups. And they can be non-union. But, if they're non-union and undercut my contract, the pilots who elect to work there will not be aided getting to work by me.

Is that simple enough for you?

FlyingA320

no one would take a ride from you anyways.

navinalign

If someone chooses to work for a company with a different pay scale how is that undercutting your contract? You do not have to live by their pay scale. And using the jumpseat as a political tool is just plain wrong. I have a 20 year Alpa pin in my closet but when my airline shut down I did not have any union brothers at the high paying airlines offering a job to me.
I dont think you have the right to judge someone else for their choice of airline. I would be happy to work for VA because it sure pays a lot more than unemployment. When you are out of insurance out of money and about to lose your house and no union airline has offered you a job you take what you can get . So until you are in my shoes -shut up.

Velocipede

Go get a job outside the airline industry. Your quote is what every scab says just as he crosses the picket line. Anyone who would work for VA, B6 or Skybus is sticking a knife in the back of every Union airline pilot in America.

Ever wonder why the narrowbody rates at UAL and AAA are where they are today? Because B6 set the bar there with their non-Union labor.

Go ahead, use your scabthink justification to go to work for VA. Take that job and you deserve the same treatment scabs have enjoyed forever.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck. Your quote makes it obvious to everyone where you would stand IF you had a spine.

FlyingA320

Well, in that case I hope you bleed a lot because tons of us are applying

Velocipede

You are the poster boy for what I'm talking about, duckie. Prepare for shunning. Of course, since you were probably an abused child, you'll enjoy it.

FlyingA320

non-sense is all you got...green face

CE750

So I guess you've never heard of "supply and demand" or Freemarket of labor? The "Contract" only lasts so long and then it has to be re-negotiated and if you're going to keep your company in business, the labor "productivity" of your new "Contract" has to match closely the non-union guy's..

Get it?