Logbook and aircraft tail numbers
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,527
1. I don't believe N numbers are a must have. The reg says where it's required. After that it's apparently not required. But it might become a 'huh' item.
2. Lying or falsification is a bad idea. If you don't have the N number move on.
3. N5xxNK? Sure, but why even bother? If you have a job history, and a flight schedule from work, that provides most of the logbook data.
4. No logbook record keeping for a year? And still trying to get a job with a major? Huh? How many flights did you fly? Your leg? His leg?
5. Decades at my current job. And randomly opportunities have come up within the company, or on the outside, that have asked for a resume. Company flight time can be found, outside flying can't be. Glad I still struggle to keep my logbook.
6. Comments for each flight? Puleeze. I make comments for unusual events. That helps recall the event. Comments for each flight? Most of the comments will be - p*in in the *ss getting off the gate, ground traffic, watched guys land and take off, flew, weather nice, laughed with FO, landed, went home.
Resume review and prep, along with interview prep, and logbook/recordkeeping/review, is about making sure you're ready, and comfortable, and prepared for the process. Being ready will help you maintain momentum and improve your comfort level during the process.
Things that don't make sense, don't add up, are outside of the expected, can generate a 'huh'. Get enough 'huh's' and the interview might become more in depth. That can become uncomfortable. If the replies generate more 'huh's' you can watch the interview unravel. Being prepared is about maintaining momentum or regaining momentum when it's lost.
Electronic logbook? Great for today's pilots. I wish it had been available when I started. Transition old log books into electronic format? A friend did it. Took him months on layovers. I'm on my 7th logbook, 130 pages each, 15 flights per page, 40+ keystrokes per flight, it's easily over 500,000 keystrokes. I like the concept but I'll pass.
Logbook? Keep up and don't fall behind is my recommendation.
2. Lying or falsification is a bad idea. If you don't have the N number move on.
3. N5xxNK? Sure, but why even bother? If you have a job history, and a flight schedule from work, that provides most of the logbook data.
4. No logbook record keeping for a year? And still trying to get a job with a major? Huh? How many flights did you fly? Your leg? His leg?
5. Decades at my current job. And randomly opportunities have come up within the company, or on the outside, that have asked for a resume. Company flight time can be found, outside flying can't be. Glad I still struggle to keep my logbook.
6. Comments for each flight? Puleeze. I make comments for unusual events. That helps recall the event. Comments for each flight? Most of the comments will be - p*in in the *ss getting off the gate, ground traffic, watched guys land and take off, flew, weather nice, laughed with FO, landed, went home.
Resume review and prep, along with interview prep, and logbook/recordkeeping/review, is about making sure you're ready, and comfortable, and prepared for the process. Being ready will help you maintain momentum and improve your comfort level during the process.
Things that don't make sense, don't add up, are outside of the expected, can generate a 'huh'. Get enough 'huh's' and the interview might become more in depth. That can become uncomfortable. If the replies generate more 'huh's' you can watch the interview unravel. Being prepared is about maintaining momentum or regaining momentum when it's lost.
Electronic logbook? Great for today's pilots. I wish it had been available when I started. Transition old log books into electronic format? A friend did it. Took him months on layovers. I'm on my 7th logbook, 130 pages each, 15 flights per page, 40+ keystrokes per flight, it's easily over 500,000 keystrokes. I like the concept but I'll pass.
Logbook? Keep up and don't fall behind is my recommendation.
#33
Originally Posted by CFR §61.51 Pilot logbooks.
§61.51 Pilot logbooks.
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:
(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.
(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:
(1) General—
(i) Date.
(ii) Total flight time or lesson time.
(iii) Location where the aircraft departed and arrived, or for lessons in a flight simulator or flight training device, the location where the lesson occurred.
(iv) Type and identification of aircraft, flight simulator, flight training device, or aviation training device, as appropriate.
(v) The name of a safety pilot, if required by §91.109 of this chapter.
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:
(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.
(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:
(1) General—
(i) Date.
(ii) Total flight time or lesson time.
(iii) Location where the aircraft departed and arrived, or for lessons in a flight simulator or flight training device, the location where the lesson occurred.
(iv) Type and identification of aircraft, flight simulator, flight training device, or aviation training device, as appropriate.
(v) The name of a safety pilot, if required by §91.109 of this chapter.
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:
Is he using the time to document "training and experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review"? I doubt it. How about "recent flight experience requirements"? I guarantee his airline's scheduling software keeps track of landing currency.(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.
(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
So if it's not required for a certificate, rating, or flight review, or for recent flight experience requirements, what has to be documented and recorded?
.
#34
The guy is working for an airline. Read the first paragraph, paragraph (a) with subparagraphs (1) and (2) and ask again what must be "documented and recorded".
So if it's not required for a certificate, rating, or flight review, or for recent flight experience requirements, what has to be documented and recorded?
.
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:
Is he using the time to document "training and experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review"? I doubt it. How about "recent flight experience requirements"? I guarantee his airline's scheduling software keeps track of landing currency.(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.
(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
So if it's not required for a certificate, rating, or flight review, or for recent flight experience requirements, what has to be documented and recorded?
.
I agree that's it's not a big deal, but you asked to be shown where the N-number is required. I showed you. As far as your other questions, the CFRs don't specify page color, number of columns or rows.
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Rebuilding the career
Posts: 169
Electronic logbook? Great for today's pilots. I wish it had been available when I started. Transition old log books into electronic format? A friend did it. Took him months on layovers. I'm on my 7th logbook, 130 pages each, 15 flights per page, 40+ keystrokes per flight, it's easily over 500,000 keystrokes. I like the concept but I'll pass.
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,985
Thank you everyone for your feedback! To give closure to this scenario, the payroll department had access to the tail numbers via crewtrac. I'm buying her lunch, thanking her profusely, and committing to never do it again. She appreciated my sincerity.
For the sake of the conversation, does is anyone familiar with exactly what DAL UAL do with the logbooks? I would assume the same basic stuff that regionals and majors do, checking for common math errors or entering data under the improper categories etc is a gimme. Do they perform any means of verifications like on flight aware or something? As I said I solved my problem so my logbook is clean to my knowledge, I just like to try my best to know what I'm in for.
"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles" -Art of War
Thanks again for the helpful feedback
For the sake of the conversation, does is anyone familiar with exactly what DAL UAL do with the logbooks? I would assume the same basic stuff that regionals and majors do, checking for common math errors or entering data under the improper categories etc is a gimme. Do they perform any means of verifications like on flight aware or something? As I said I solved my problem so my logbook is clean to my knowledge, I just like to try my best to know what I'm in for.
"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles" -Art of War
Thanks again for the helpful feedback
FWIW I got the job, so not that big a deal in the end.
Last edited by freezingflyboy; 09-19-2016 at 05:01 PM.
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,985
I've always tried to record the N-number. Occasionally I have forgotten to write it down and I don't know an easy way to recover that data so I just leave it blank in that case. I also record the name of the other pilot, if it was my landing, if we did an approach besides a visual and comments if something unusual happened, especially if there was an ASAP or something involved.
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 787
Just out of sheer curiosity, what exactly do airlines do when they "review your logbooks." I know there's some obvious stuff their looking for that might be sketchy, but what else? Are they adding every line on the page to make sure the totals on the bottom match up? Are they looking up random flights in a database to verify the flight actually exists and the times are accurate?
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