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Old 09-16-2016, 07:14 AM
  #31  
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Just put the two letter code of your airline where tail number goes. No one's going to question your flight time. This should be a non-issue. Common sense needs to prevail here.
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Old 09-16-2016, 09:02 AM
  #32  
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1. I don't believe N numbers are a must have. The reg says where it's required. After that it's apparently not required. But it might become a 'huh' item.

2. Lying or falsification is a bad idea. If you don't have the N number move on.

3. N5xxNK? Sure, but why even bother? If you have a job history, and a flight schedule from work, that provides most of the logbook data.

4. No logbook record keeping for a year? And still trying to get a job with a major? Huh? How many flights did you fly? Your leg? His leg?

5. Decades at my current job. And randomly opportunities have come up within the company, or on the outside, that have asked for a resume. Company flight time can be found, outside flying can't be. Glad I still struggle to keep my logbook.

6. Comments for each flight? Puleeze. I make comments for unusual events. That helps recall the event. Comments for each flight? Most of the comments will be - p*in in the *ss getting off the gate, ground traffic, watched guys land and take off, flew, weather nice, laughed with FO, landed, went home.

Resume review and prep, along with interview prep, and logbook/recordkeeping/review, is about making sure you're ready, and comfortable, and prepared for the process. Being ready will help you maintain momentum and improve your comfort level during the process.

Things that don't make sense, don't add up, are outside of the expected, can generate a 'huh'. Get enough 'huh's' and the interview might become more in depth. That can become uncomfortable. If the replies generate more 'huh's' you can watch the interview unravel. Being prepared is about maintaining momentum or regaining momentum when it's lost.

Electronic logbook? Great for today's pilots. I wish it had been available when I started. Transition old log books into electronic format? A friend did it. Took him months on layovers. I'm on my 7th logbook, 130 pages each, 15 flights per page, 40+ keystrokes per flight, it's easily over 500,000 keystrokes. I like the concept but I'll pass.

Logbook? Keep up and don't fall behind is my recommendation.
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Old 09-16-2016, 10:06 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Sluggo_63

Originally Posted by TonyC
Your point?

Perhaps you can enlighten us by sharing the citation from the CFR that makes recording the N-number mandatory.
Originally Posted by CFR §61.51 Pilot logbooks.
§61.51 Pilot logbooks.
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:

(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.

(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.

(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:

(1) General—

(i) Date.

(ii) Total flight time or lesson time.

(iii) Location where the aircraft departed and arrived, or for lessons in a flight simulator or flight training device, the location where the lesson occurred.

(iv) Type and identification of aircraft, flight simulator, flight training device, or aviation training device, as appropriate.

(v) The name of a safety pilot, if required by §91.109 of this chapter.
I always thought when it asked for the identification of the aircraft, they meant N-number. Who knows... But I also log the name of who I'm flying with and the type of approach I did and the location.

The guy is working for an airline. Read the first paragraph, paragraph (a) with subparagraphs (1) and (2) and ask again what must be "documented and recorded".
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:
(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.

(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
Is he using the time to document "training and experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review"? I doubt it. How about "recent flight experience requirements"? I guarantee his airline's scheduling software keeps track of landing currency.

So if it's not required for a certificate, rating, or flight review, or for recent flight experience requirements, what has to be documented and recorded?







.
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Old 09-16-2016, 10:41 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by TonyC
The guy is working for an airline. Read the first paragraph, paragraph (a) with subparagraphs (1) and (2) and ask again what must be "documented and recorded".
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:
(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.

(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
Is he using the time to document "training and experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review"? I doubt it. How about "recent flight experience requirements"? I guarantee his airline's scheduling software keeps track of landing currency.

So if it's not required for a certificate, rating, or flight review, or for recent flight experience requirements, what has to be documented and recorded?







.
That's not what you asked. You or I don't know why he's keeping a logbook. He's at an airline getting ready to interview at another airline. Maybe he's at a regional without an ATP. Maybe he has a R-ATP. Maybe he wants a seaplane rating. Who knows. He's keeping a logbook for a reason. His airline keeps records for currency, but the tail numbers weren't part of that record. He had to buy someone lunch to pull them out of another system. Is the airline's records valid without the tail number? I don't know.

I agree that's it's not a big deal, but you asked to be shown where the N-number is required. I showed you. As far as your other questions, the CFRs don't specify page color, number of columns or rows.
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Old 09-19-2016, 07:23 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Sliceback

Electronic logbook? Great for today's pilots. I wish it had been available when I started. Transition old log books into electronic format? A friend did it. Took him months on layovers. I'm on my 7th logbook, 130 pages each, 15 flights per page, 40+ keystrokes per flight, it's easily over 500,000 keystrokes. I like the concept but I'll pass.
Yeah, right there with ya. My first logbook entries were in 1983. Transpose 33 years worth of logbook entries? No thanks. Would have been nice if it was available when I first started, but unfortunately there was no such program for my Commodore Vic 20.
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Old 09-19-2016, 04:50 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Raeamb1
Thank you everyone for your feedback! To give closure to this scenario, the payroll department had access to the tail numbers via crewtrac. I'm buying her lunch, thanking her profusely, and committing to never do it again. She appreciated my sincerity.

For the sake of the conversation, does is anyone familiar with exactly what DAL UAL do with the logbooks? I would assume the same basic stuff that regionals and majors do, checking for common math errors or entering data under the improper categories etc is a gimme. Do they perform any means of verifications like on flight aware or something? As I said I solved my problem so my logbook is clean to my knowledge, I just like to try my best to know what I'm in for.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles" -Art of War

Thanks again for the helpful feedback
I have all of my hours recorded in old school, Jepp-style hard bound logbooks. I brought all of them from the chincy free logbook I got with my first PPL lesson all the way to two of the big, fat brown Jepp logbooks with the green pages. At the DAL interview, they take your logbooks from you first thing and you get them back during the face-to-face portion of the interview. In my case, the only question asked about my logbook had to do with an inconsistency on an endorsement an instructor had put in my logbook years ago. I had no idea the inconsistency existed before that point but gave them the most likely explanation based on my training experience, which was accepted with little or no fuss, and they moved on, not to mention logbooks again. Now, I'm not sure if that was just this guys "thing" that he looks for or if they check stuff like that for everybody or if he just randomly came across it flipping pages and went "Hmmm". But that was the only time my logbooks were discussed during the entire interview.

FWIW I got the job, so not that big a deal in the end.

Last edited by freezingflyboy; 09-19-2016 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 09-19-2016, 04:58 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Sluggo_63
I always thought when it asked for the identification of the aircraft, they meant N-number. Who knows... But I also log the name of who I'm flying with and the type of approach I did and the location.
I've always tried to record the N-number. Occasionally I have forgotten to write it down and I don't know an easy way to recover that data so I just leave it blank in that case. I also record the name of the other pilot, if it was my landing, if we did an approach besides a visual and comments if something unusual happened, especially if there was an ASAP or something involved.
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Old 09-19-2016, 09:28 PM
  #38  
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Just out of sheer curiosity, what exactly do airlines do when they "review your logbooks." I know there's some obvious stuff their looking for that might be sketchy, but what else? Are they adding every line on the page to make sure the totals on the bottom match up? Are they looking up random flights in a database to verify the flight actually exists and the times are accurate?


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