MartinBishop

That sounds to me like an excuse for the unions not doing their jobs over the years of allowing wages to be lower than the should be. I mean why did the unions ever let wages be that low?

tomgoodman

A 2009 Canadian film called "The Timekeeper" told of an innocent young man who found out the hard way that oppressed workers can only protect themselves from a greedy boss if they organize. The character's name was Martin Bishop.

CBreezy

Most of the 135 carriers weren't union carriers before the regional airline boom. The ones that were, like Comair, were shuttered. Trans States Airlines was notably not union for a long time before approaching the owner and asking for a raise and better QOL. He threw a fit and refused. So, they unionized. Since then, their pay and QOL have risen significantly. So, once again, you don't understand the regional airline industry.

labbats

You make a good point but how many military pilots are trying to get on with a regional?

The point is this is just the first step of relaxing the rules to all applicants eventually. The answer to a shortage in many of our opinions is better pay not lower hourly requirements.

andrewtac

My only point is that they (mil guys with extremely low hours) exist. Also, there are many of them trying regionals as welll. Many end their mil career in non-flying tours or low hours and use the regionals as a stepping stone. Again, not suggesting to lower any requirements; just providing information.

iahflyr

As someone who got on with a regional airline with far fewer than 1500 hours, I support the lowering the minimums to become a 121 first officer to a more reasonable level.

The truth is, if the FAA relaxed minimums to something like 750 hours, or even 250 hours, the pilot shortage would still be around. There are only so many pilots with 250 hours, and they would then have the option of flight instructing for a bit, or joining a regional airline, depending upon their values of QOL and pay. If flight schools had to compete for candidates with the regional airlines, their pay would have to go as there is a fundamental shortage of pilots. As that pay went up, regional airlines would still face a shortage of pilots or have to continue raising their pay to attract candidates.

The 1500 hour rule did not create the pilot shortage. The 1500 hour rule shifted the pilot shortage slightly, increasing the supply of CFI's, banner tow pilots, and the other 250-1500 hour jobs, while slightly decreasing the supply of pilots for regional airlines. The pilot shortage was created by a high amount of older major airline pilots retiring, and fewer commercial airline pilots being created despite a growth in the number of pilot jobs. Not from the 1500 hour rule.

Just look at what's happening to operators of 9, 19, and 30 seat turbo prop airplanes. Those airplanes are practically gone! Fuel is the cheapest it has been in over 10 years. These type of operations should be thriving and growing, but this regulation is killing jobs. Not just lower paying FO jobs, but higher paying Captain PIC turbine experience opportunities. All we are doing is shooting ourselves in the foot and losing more jobs by supporting this regulation.

The unintended consequence of the 1500 hour rule is that it brings even worse poverty level wages to pilots in the 250-1500 hour range. If you look at career earnings for a pilot, it just means more debt and hardship at the beginning of their careers. I do not support that.

Both the pilots from Colgan 3407 had more than 1500 hours. Nothing about this law would have prevented that crash. In fact, I would agree that regional airlines are hiring worse pilots after the rule came into effect. Now regional airlines will hire anyone with a pulse it seems. If the minimums were lower, the airline can select the best pilots, which only increases safety!

As someone who mentors a lot of young pilots, I cannot look them in the eye and say "Sorry, I want you to spend an extra year or two making true poverty wages and gaining practically zero relevant experience (single engine, VFR, slow, not even flying the airplane) because I'm selfish and I want a slight benefit at your expense." That sounds a lot like the major airline pilots who sold out on scope because it didn't effect them! I refuse to be in that same category.

MarktheAV8R

+10000 ^^^

CBreezy

I disagree in principle with what you are saying. I learned an incredible amount between 250 and 1500 hours as an instructor. At 250 hours, you've barely been in the airplane alone without an instructor. Additionally, flight instructor pay has gone up significantly. At my old flight school, instructors make between $25-32 per hour with an endless supply of students. I made more there than I did on my first year at a regional.

I taught many commercial candidates and flown with many brand new 121 pilots with 1500 hours fresh off IOE. I can state, without a doubt, that I would much rather have someone in the right seat who instructed for a year than someone with a wet commercial. It's apples and oranges comparing the experience of the two. If you don't think a CFI is flying the airplane just because he isn't touching the controls, then you really don't comprehend what the job of a CFI is.

MKUltra

I made more being a CFI and you wouldn't want me at the controls at 250 hours especially with a single engine/gear emergency. After being a CFI I was a bit calmer and mature, and handled training with a different mindset. Plus being in a crew environment was much easier. If we shorted out the time required and allowed low time pilots who is going to be the CFI's to train the next batch? There are barely enough instructors to cover the current 141 flight schools. Until an airline starts a flight academy such as Lufthansa, and trains and staffs their own pilots, we're just going around in circles here.

NeverHome

Agreed 100%. If Im ever on an interview board, I will take the CFI over the other guy. I learned more about aviation as an instructor than I could have otherwise. Actually controlling an aircraft doesnt take long to master. Even in crummy conditions. No at a 121 it is 80% cerebral. ADM, knowlege, and sound judgement are what dictates the safe outcome of any situation. I feel that most of these skills are developed while instructing when you have low hours. Agreed that after so much instructing then it is time to get a different experiance. Is over 1000hours of instructing the best? No, but say over 500 is!