VA Weighs Sale After Receiving Interest
03-28-2016, 06:25 PM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 113
You will have the same number of guys going in front of you whether they start at number 5 or 1600. What can't you understand about that? And your saying relative seniority so our junior captains on the 190 would lose their seat according to your theory. That's just wrong
03-28-2016, 06:33 PM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,236
You will have the same number of guys going in front of you whether they start at number 5 or 1600. What can't you understand about that? And your saying relative seniority so our junior captains on the 190 would lose their seat according to your theory. That's just wrong
No downgrades on either side. So take the 300 or so CA's they have and give them a relative seniority integration to our CA's list. If you don't think their number 1 guy should be right by our number 1 guy fine, the starting point of this relative seniority can be started at say number 200 seniority on the JetBlue list. That number would have to be negotiated and then arbitrated probably. Same exact thing for the FO side.
There would also have to be fences up in all of the domiciles for a period of years.
It's gonna be a mess. But we have to keep it fair to both sides.
Hopefully it just doesn't happen.
03-28-2016, 06:37 PM
#144
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
I only ask because there was a time when you were at the larger airline, who acquired the smaller airline, and you were with the more senior pilot group. You said time and time again that DOH was the best methodology.
Now that you are the "Colgan" in this merger, still want that DOH?
I'm a Pinnacle pilot hired in 2007, and I will tell ya'll right now we better get DOH for EVERYONE. If it's anything like a relative integration, get ready to have a bunch of Colgan junior pilots go senior to many Pinnacle and Mesaba pilots. I myself would lose about 250 spots to junior (hired after 2007) Colgan pilots who would go above me in a relative integration.
This SLI is gonna be a real piece of turd!
This SLI is gonna be a real piece of turd!
I'm serious. What's wrong with DOH?
Even though Mesaba has 300 or so pilots hired prior to 2000, at least a third of them have Delta flow numbers, and they'll be gone in a year or two anyway. As for Colgan, what's your problem with DOH? What makes you deserve an integrated position to go above current 9E/XJ pilots who are senior to you? And don't get me the crap about your career expectations and how you came to Colgan for the quick upgrade and willingly skipped Pinnacle and Mesaba for the crap pay. We were the same in 2007 at Pinnacle. No one knew the economy could have tanked. And it was OUR money that bought your Q400s! Don't ever forget that. The NWA convertible notes for 190 million was used to buy your company for $20 million and the rest for a Q400 order.
If it ends up being relative, I would have been better off by starting at Pinnacle in 2007, then quit Pinnacle to go to Colgan in 2008, upgrade on the Q400 and in 2011 on the SLI, I would have gone senior to those hired in 2007 at Pinnacle. Silly me, what was I thinking staying at Pinnacle?
MAKE ONE GOOD ARGUMENT AGAINST STRAIGHT-UP DOH!!!!!!!!
Even though Mesaba has 300 or so pilots hired prior to 2000, at least a third of them have Delta flow numbers, and they'll be gone in a year or two anyway. As for Colgan, what's your problem with DOH? What makes you deserve an integrated position to go above current 9E/XJ pilots who are senior to you? And don't get me the crap about your career expectations and how you came to Colgan for the quick upgrade and willingly skipped Pinnacle and Mesaba for the crap pay. We were the same in 2007 at Pinnacle. No one knew the economy could have tanked. And it was OUR money that bought your Q400s! Don't ever forget that. The NWA convertible notes for 190 million was used to buy your company for $20 million and the rest for a Q400 order.
If it ends up being relative, I would have been better off by starting at Pinnacle in 2007, then quit Pinnacle to go to Colgan in 2008, upgrade on the Q400 and in 2011 on the SLI, I would have gone senior to those hired in 2007 at Pinnacle. Silly me, what was I thinking staying at Pinnacle?
MAKE ONE GOOD ARGUMENT AGAINST STRAIGHT-UP DOH!!!!!!!!
03-28-2016, 06:40 PM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 113
Here's my proposal:
No downgrades on either side. So take the 300 or so CA's they have and give them a relative seniority integration to our CA's list. If you don't think their number 1 guy should be right by our number 1 guy fine, the starting point of this relative seniority can be started at say number 200 seniority on the JetBlue list. That number would have to be negotiated and then arbitrated probably. Same exact thing for the FO side.
There would also have to be fences up in all of the domiciles for a period of years.
It's gonna be a mess. But we have to keep it fair to both sides.
Hopefully it just doesn't happen.
No downgrades on either side. So take the 300 or so CA's they have and give them a relative seniority integration to our CA's list. If you don't think their number 1 guy should be right by our number 1 guy fine, the starting point of this relative seniority can be started at say number 200 seniority on the JetBlue list. That number would have to be negotiated and then arbitrated probably. Same exact thing for the FO side.
There would also have to be fences up in all of the domiciles for a period of years.
It's gonna be a mess. But we have to keep it fair to both sides.
Hopefully it just doesn't happen.
03-28-2016, 06:41 PM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 113
So I assume you mean straight DOH is the "cleanest" and what you would want?
I only ask because there was a time when you were at the larger airline, who acquired the smaller airline, and you were with the more senior pilot group. You said time and time again that DOH was the best methodology.
Now that you are the "Colgan" in this merger, still want that DOH?
I only ask because there was a time when you were at the larger airline, who acquired the smaller airline, and you were with the more senior pilot group. You said time and time again that DOH was the best methodology.
Now that you are the "Colgan" in this merger, still want that DOH?
03-28-2016, 07:01 PM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,551
VA Weighs Sale After Receiving Interest
Can't take credit for this I stole it. This is what a swa/at style integration would look like.
top 924 slots go to JB pilots.
The next 44 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 407 JB pilots.
The next 80 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 758 JB pilots.
The next 223 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 1131 JB pilots.
The first 54 VA FOs are ratio'd with the next 80 JB pilots.
The rest of the 199 VA FOs are stapled to the bottom of the JB FO list.
The pilots hired at JB after the merger is announced are next.
The pilots hired at VA after the merger is announced are next.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
top 924 slots go to JB pilots.
The next 44 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 407 JB pilots.
The next 80 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 758 JB pilots.
The next 223 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 1131 JB pilots.
The first 54 VA FOs are ratio'd with the next 80 JB pilots.
The rest of the 199 VA FOs are stapled to the bottom of the JB FO list.
The pilots hired at JB after the merger is announced are next.
The pilots hired at VA after the merger is announced are next.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
03-28-2016, 07:03 PM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 992
Can't take credit for this I stole it. This is what a swa/at style integration would look like.
top 924 slots go to JB pilots.
The next 44 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 407 JB pilots.
The next 80 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 758 JB pilots.
The next 223 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 1131 JB pilots.
The first 54 VA FOs are ratio'd with the next 80 JB pilots.
The rest of the 199 VA FOs are stapled to the bottom of the JB FO list.
The pilots hired at JB after the merger is announced are next.
The pilots hired at VA after the merger is announced are next.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
top 924 slots go to JB pilots.
The next 44 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 407 JB pilots.
The next 80 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 758 JB pilots.
The next 223 VA captains are ratio'd with the next 1131 JB pilots.
The first 54 VA FOs are ratio'd with the next 80 JB pilots.
The rest of the 199 VA FOs are stapled to the bottom of the JB FO list.
The pilots hired at JB after the merger is announced are next.
The pilots hired at VA after the merger is announced are next.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Add a 5 year fence and I think it's pretty decent look at what the integration would end up looking like.
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