atooraya

8 hours drinking before flying is a reg

12 hours drinking before flying is a company policy.


"NOT a reg..." See how that flies.

Std Deviation

Nothing ever transpires until something bad happens. Then when they have a mediocre case they'll go after "careless and reckless" in 91. Of course, once your certs are suspended you can always appeal to the NTSB admin judge. Then you've got some civil attorney suing you for mental anguish because they all thought they were going to die when the tire blew out. But... But your honor, I just wanted to see if Lamar had gotten out of the hospital after the weekend in the brothel....

Short Bus Drive

I understand what you guys/girls are saying. My point was the FAA can't bust you for company policy. But they can bust you for texting, or even playing games on your phone while in cruise.

And as far as careless or reckless, that's a loooong road to go down to make it stick.
The guidelines to make a case against someone are pretty strict.

BTW, UAL has removed that company policy. So now I can read without fear...

Sorry. Just got a bug up my butt about the FAA recently. Recently a friend told me a story of his observation ride. While PARKED waiting for the gate, he asked the inspector if he missed the flying. They chatted for bit until the gate opened up. As the inspector was getting off, he said to my friend he could've "failed" him for breaking "sterile cockpit".
1. You CAN NOT fail an observation ride from the FAA.
2. They were parked. NOT TAXIING. So they were not in a critical phase.

One of the MANY reasons I got out of the FAA when I was offered to come back to flying. Guys with big badges, thinking they know all, and most have never really flown the line.

Rant over...

atooraya

WHAT?

Yes they can!

Also, if you are on an active taxiway, or ramp, you are in a critical phase of flight.....You can't be "busted" but you can be violated.

captjns

Negative to point 1. Fred T. Rufus can cause a ruckus for any infraction be it company or FAR.

Affirmative to point 2.

atooraya

U.S. FAR 121.542/135.100, "Flight Crewmember Duties":[6]

No certificate holder shall require, nor may any flight crewmember perform, any duties during a critical phase of flight except those duties required for the safe operation of the aircraft. Duties such as company required calls made for such nonsafety related purposes as ordering galley supplies and confirming passenger connections, announcements made to passengers promoting the air carrier or pointing out sights of interest, and filling out company payroll and related records are not required for the safe operation of the aircraft.
No flight crewmember may engage in, nor may any pilot in command permit, any activity during a critical phase of flight which could distract any flight crewmember from the performance of his or her duties or which could interfere in any way with the proper conduct of those duties. Activities such as eating meals, engaging in nonessential conversations within the cockpit and nonessential communications between the cabin and cockpit crews, and reading publications not related to the proper conduct of the flight are not required for the safe operation of the aircraft.
For the purposes of this section, critical phases of flight includes all ground operations involving taxi, takeoff and landing, and all other flight operations conducted below 10,000 feet, except cruise flight.

Let's keep playing this, "Its in the regs" game.

Short Bus Drive

If you're going to quote, quote the whole thing, and use the most current....

"Part 121 OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS
Subpart T--Flight Operations

Sec. 121.542

Flight crewmember duties.

(a) No certificate holder shall require, nor may any flight crewmember perform, any duties during a critical phase of flight except those duties required for the safe operation of the aircraft. Duties such as company required calls made for such nonsafety related purposes as ordering galley supplies and confirming passenger connections, announcements made to passengers promoting the air carrier or pointing out sights of interest, and filling out company payroll and related records are not required for the safe operation of the aircraft.

(b) No flight crewmember may engage in, nor may any pilot in command permit, any activity during a critical phase of flight which could distract any flight crewmember from the performance of his or her duties or which could interfere in any way with the proper conduct of those duties. Activities such as eating meals, engaging in nonessential conversations within the cockpit and nonessential communications between the cabin and cockpit crews, and reading publications not related to the proper conduct of the flight are not required for the safe operation of the aircraft.

(c) For the purposes of this section, critical phases of flight includes all ground operations involving taxi, takeoff and landing, and all other flight operations conducted below 10,000 feet, except cruise flight.

(d) During all flight time as defined in 14 CFR 1.1, no flight crewmember may use, nor may any pilot in command permit the use of, a personal wireless communications device (as defined in 49 U.S.C. 44732(d)) or laptop computer while at a flight crewmember duty station unless the purpose is directly related to operation of the aircraft, or for emergency, safety-related, or employment-related communications, in accordance with air carrier procedures approved by the Administrator.

Note: Taxi is defined as "movement of an airplane under its own power on the surface of an airport."


Amdt. 121-369, Eff. 4/14/2014"


Note the "Note"....

atooraya

The note is put in there to probably differentiate between taxi under its own power or being repositioned by a tug. Section (c) explicitly states, "all ground operations involving taxi."

Hey man, its your ticket. If you wanna try it out, go to ORD or LGA and be number 20 for takeoff and every time you move forward, then set the brake, you can start talking about your favorite football team with a Fed in a jumpseat. Then you can show them the note and let me know the reaction.

atooraya

I once had a captain who was super chatty while we were taxiing so I asked him to see his tiller. When he handed it over to me, I said, "You'll get this back when you can learn how to respect sterile cockpit." I can assure you he learned his lesson.

GogglesPisano

So the next time a pilot makes a PA during an extended ground-stop with engines shut down, informing passengers of the situation, he's violating sterile cockpit? Seriously?