Jumpseat question for Delta and United
02-02-2016, 06:08 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,918
I don't know how old this thread is, but today AA is reservation-based for the j/s, and FCFS for the back.
We changed to a reservation-based system last October. The company tried to implement the same system LUS had, but failed miserably. They married the j/s reservation system to the non rev travel system and it's creating all kinds of havoc. It needs to be separate, and that's what we are pressuring the company to do.
We also have many problems with deadheading. Not absolute positive space A1 mind you (even though, occasionally, we do have a bonehead who tries to take the j/s as an A1), but rather the slightly lower priority A3 that is not quite positive space, but who can still bump a reserved j/s. This is flat out WRONG. Word is that the company is looking to change to A1 for all deadheading, like LUS and all other airlines have.
I know it's hard to believe, but AA has never given its pilots 100% positive space deadheading coming back home from training, or to base. We currently get A3s back from training, which is not a confirmed seat if the flight is oversold. Guess what happens then - the A3 can bump the reserved j/s. It's criminal. It's one of the things we are fighting strongly to get changed.
To me, the ideal system is what DAL has: reserved j/s, and seniority for the cabin.
Going forward, post-SLI, our committee has been tasked to come up with a hybrid system. Seniority for the first few days, then reservation the last few. I don't know what the final product will look like.
Lots of moving parts, but slowly bearing fruit.
AA is a huge airline with a pilot culture stuck in the 1950s. We are slowly trying to get it changed.
73
APA National j/s committee
We changed to a reservation-based system last October. The company tried to implement the same system LUS had, but failed miserably. They married the j/s reservation system to the non rev travel system and it's creating all kinds of havoc. It needs to be separate, and that's what we are pressuring the company to do.
We also have many problems with deadheading. Not absolute positive space A1 mind you (even though, occasionally, we do have a bonehead who tries to take the j/s as an A1), but rather the slightly lower priority A3 that is not quite positive space, but who can still bump a reserved j/s. This is flat out WRONG. Word is that the company is looking to change to A1 for all deadheading, like LUS and all other airlines have.
I know it's hard to believe, but AA has never given its pilots 100% positive space deadheading coming back home from training, or to base. We currently get A3s back from training, which is not a confirmed seat if the flight is oversold. Guess what happens then - the A3 can bump the reserved j/s. It's criminal. It's one of the things we are fighting strongly to get changed.
To me, the ideal system is what DAL has: reserved j/s, and seniority for the cabin.
Going forward, post-SLI, our committee has been tasked to come up with a hybrid system. Seniority for the first few days, then reservation the last few. I don't know what the final product will look like.
Lots of moving parts, but slowly bearing fruit.
AA is a huge airline with a pilot culture stuck in the 1950s. We are slowly trying to get it changed.
73
APA National j/s committee
02-02-2016, 06:36 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 2,224
I don't know how old this thread is, but today AA is reservation-based for the j/s, and FCFS for the back.
We changed to a reservation-based system last October. The company tried to implement the same system LUS had, but failed miserably. They married the j/s reservation system to the non rev travel system and it's creating all kinds of havoc. It needs to be separate, and that's what we are pressuring the company to do.
We also have many problems with deadheading. Not absolute positive space A1 mind you (even though, occasionally, we do have a bonehead who tries to take the j/s as an A1), but rather the slightly lower priority A3 that is not quite positive space, but who can still bump a reserved j/s. This is flat out WRONG. Word is that the company is looking to change to A1 for all deadheading, like LUS and all other airlines have.
I know it's hard to believe, but AA has never given its pilots 100% positive space deadheading coming back home from training, or to base. We currently get A3s back from training, which is not a confirmed seat if the flight is oversold. Guess what happens then - the A3 can bump the reserved j/s. It's criminal. It's one of the things we are fighting strongly to get changed.
To me, the ideal system is what DAL has: reserved j/s, and seniority for the cabin.
Going forward, post-SLI, our committee has been tasked to come up with a hybrid system. Seniority for the first few days, then reservation the last few. I don't know what the final product will look like.
Lots of moving parts, but slowly bearing fruit.
AA is a huge airline with a pilot culture stuck in the 1950s. We are slowly trying to get it changed.
73
APA National j/s committee
We changed to a reservation-based system last October. The company tried to implement the same system LUS had, but failed miserably. They married the j/s reservation system to the non rev travel system and it's creating all kinds of havoc. It needs to be separate, and that's what we are pressuring the company to do.
We also have many problems with deadheading. Not absolute positive space A1 mind you (even though, occasionally, we do have a bonehead who tries to take the j/s as an A1), but rather the slightly lower priority A3 that is not quite positive space, but who can still bump a reserved j/s. This is flat out WRONG. Word is that the company is looking to change to A1 for all deadheading, like LUS and all other airlines have.
I know it's hard to believe, but AA has never given its pilots 100% positive space deadheading coming back home from training, or to base. We currently get A3s back from training, which is not a confirmed seat if the flight is oversold. Guess what happens then - the A3 can bump the reserved j/s. It's criminal. It's one of the things we are fighting strongly to get changed.
To me, the ideal system is what DAL has: reserved j/s, and seniority for the cabin.
Going forward, post-SLI, our committee has been tasked to come up with a hybrid system. Seniority for the first few days, then reservation the last few. I don't know what the final product will look like.
Lots of moving parts, but slowly bearing fruit.
AA is a huge airline with a pilot culture stuck in the 1950s. We are slowly trying to get it changed.
73
APA National j/s committee
02-02-2016, 11:47 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 2,224
No, you were perfectly clear. And I agree with you 100%. I just still feel the actions of that particular "leader" need to be shared. He's been a rabid hater of the system and was willing to stall progress on fixing the broken items now to get his personal agenda pushed through.
02-02-2016, 12:20 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,752
The United system for JS is seniority based. You can book it as far in advance as you want but until the jetway pulls back you never know if you have it. Some senior commuters will literally book at the gate as a matter of habit, because they know they can. Really drives guys crazy.
Meanwhile, the FNG/low seniority guy can't hold a seat in back and the senior just jumped the gun on the JS.
Had he waited, BOTH pilots could have got where they needed to go.
DAL's system is way better in this regard.
02-02-2016, 02:12 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,918
No, you were perfectly clear. And I agree with you 100%. I just still feel the actions of that particular "leader" need to be shared. He's been a rabid hater of the system and was willing to stall progress on fixing the broken items now to get his personal agenda pushed through.
02-02-2016, 03:58 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: WB/A
Posts: 899
Response #1 in this thread is dated, but I noticed nobody clarified an inaccuracy in the past year. No offense Scoop, but my "correction" might carry even more significance to the combined lists at AA and UAL. DL nonrev priority is not seniority based. It is longevity based. Big differences in some realms ... the tail end guys from 1989 at USAir for instance. Under a DL-like system, they'd trump more than half the seniority list for cabin access, even though I believe they are actual seniority bottom dwellers.
All that aside, I like the DL jumpseat booking system well enough. It's predictable and even-handed. Unlike AA, we have walk-up offline jumpseats. I'd love to see you guys put some emphasis on making that happen at AA. You're always welcome over here, but I never use you guys because of the listing requirement. My commute is too "dynamic" to deal with that.
All that aside, I like the DL jumpseat booking system well enough. It's predictable and even-handed. Unlike AA, we have walk-up offline jumpseats. I'd love to see you guys put some emphasis on making that happen at AA. You're always welcome over here, but I never use you guys because of the listing requirement. My commute is too "dynamic" to deal with that.
02-02-2016, 06:35 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,918
Zippin... We just had a meeting with management in which the OAL walk up j/s was one of our main gripes. We are hoping it will change, the company didn't quite realize how complicated it currently was, and were receptive to having it changed to a delta or ual style walk up j/s. Let's see what happens...it is not for a lack of trying on our behalf, we hate it as much as you.
06-18-2016, 04:26 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 362
apologies for resurrecting an old post but I need a question answered for jumpseating. How impossible is it to JS on DAL between PHL and MSP and vice versa? Cant imagine a lot of commuters between these cities. PM if you dont mind. Many thanks!
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