Is Profit-Sharing = At-Risk Compensation?
01-14-2015, 04:08 PM
#11
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Sink,
I think/hope you got it right. The pragmatist in me says you did. However, if PS is "traded" for rates, I'm a no. Pay rates stand on their own PS stands on it's own separately. Fool me once, do it once, do it right, etc...
Now that we fund our own retirement, it has become the area that needs to be addressed. It is the main reason, IMO, why our pay rates "feel" like they are lacking. So much has been eroded from earlier contracts and lifestyle that (I am not mentioning several of the midterm improvements) we really need to clean up that side of the ledger, significantly.
On a related note, I cannot imagine a scenario where the company doesn't try to come after profit sharing...a strike worthy event IMO.
I think/hope you got it right. The pragmatist in me says you did. However, if PS is "traded" for rates, I'm a no. Pay rates stand on their own PS stands on it's own separately. Fool me once, do it once, do it right, etc...
Now that we fund our own retirement, it has become the area that needs to be addressed. It is the main reason, IMO, why our pay rates "feel" like they are lacking. So much has been eroded from earlier contracts and lifestyle that (I am not mentioning several of the midterm improvements) we really need to clean up that side of the ledger, significantly.
On a related note, I cannot imagine a scenario where the company doesn't try to come after profit sharing...a strike worthy event IMO.
01-14-2015, 05:57 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Sink,
I think/hope you got it right. The pragmatist in me says you did. However, if PS is "traded" for rates, I'm a no. Pay rates stand on their own PS stands on it's own separately. Fool me once, do it once, do it right, etc...
Now that we fund our own retirement, it has become the area that needs to be addressed. It is the main reason, IMO, why our pay rates "feel" like they are lacking. So much has been eroded from earlier contracts and lifestyle that (I am not mentioning several of the midterm improvements) we really need to clean up that side of the ledger, significantly.
On a related note, I cannot imagine a scenario where the company doesn't try to come after profit sharing...a strike worthy event IMO.
I think/hope you got it right. The pragmatist in me says you did. However, if PS is "traded" for rates, I'm a no. Pay rates stand on their own PS stands on it's own separately. Fool me once, do it once, do it right, etc...
Now that we fund our own retirement, it has become the area that needs to be addressed. It is the main reason, IMO, why our pay rates "feel" like they are lacking. So much has been eroded from earlier contracts and lifestyle that (I am not mentioning several of the midterm improvements) we really need to clean up that side of the ledger, significantly.
On a related note, I cannot imagine a scenario where the company doesn't try to come after profit sharing...a strike worthy event IMO.
I have no idea if I'm reading what's happening correctly. If our union has decided that monetizing the PS is the way to go, I think they're not reading their surveys correctly. I think there is some amount of "yes" fatigue after C2102, and serious resentment over the self-funding portion thereof. In that case, we're way behind on the torches and pitchforks.
If, on the other hand, they're actually rational people, then we're playing against ourselves by emphasizing the PS. That's the Company's job. I think this discussion needs to occur on two levels: publicly, we need to sit tight, and internally, we need to be clear that our upside protection, the PS, was the agreed upon distribution of future profits to get this thing back on its' feet. It's no less sacred than RA's stock.
Now let's talk about the salary component.
01-14-2015, 06:01 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Me neither. There may be some people that think the value of the PS is close to peaking, and think they're correctly speculating, but I don't want them speculating with MY PS on my behalf. Just as the merger stock was given to individual pilots, where I got to make the call (I still have mine).
01-14-2015, 06:10 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
But if he's willing to give it up, wouldn't he be talking it up, to increase the value? I just think it's way too early to see where they're going with it. We've had a couple guys state they thought they saw a trial balloon (including myself). I spoke to a guy, that spoke to a guy. PD won't name a source, and Jerry's speculating. In retrospect, I haven't spoken to one union guy saying the PS is on the block. Donatelli might be suggesting it is, or he might be complaining that at-risk is nice, but it just isn't enough. Which is what every Delta pilot ought to be arguing.
I know it's a time-honored tradition of ours (me included) to engage in premature online freak-outs, but I wonder if we're really seeing anything abnormal happening.
01-14-2015, 06:17 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 757/767
Posts: 588
Donatelli's contract statements today per @Delta_MEC_Com. Posted in sequential order.
My takeaway...second hand quotes with a max 144 characters is a terrible way to communicate. Based on these quotes I have no clue where profit sharing fits into "the best damn contract on the planet." Does linking our gains to the gains of the company mean profit sharing? I don't know.
My takeaway...second hand quotes with a max 144 characters is a terrible way to communicate. Based on these quotes I have no clue where profit sharing fits into "the best damn contract on the planet." Does linking our gains to the gains of the company mean profit sharing? I don't know.
“Contract 2015 it's here and now!"-- "$1.5m put in pilots pockets due to effective enforcement processes" - Chairman Capt Donatelli
"Must drill down and focus on 2015, THIS IS OUR YEAR. Link our gains with the gains of the company." Chairman Capt. Donatelli
"We are the single most impactful group at Delta. Both figurative and literally at the controls of airline." --- Chairman Donatelli
"We need a contract tied to the company...
Profit sharing = At-risk compensation." Chairman Donatelli
Profit sharing = At-risk compensation." Chairman Donatelli
"This is our time to act. The profitability of delta, by many measures, is beyond what many of us could have imagined." CM Donatelli
"Low fuel, mainline growth, aircraft delivers, economic forecast, and retirements. The perfect time for negotiations is NOW!" -CM Donatelli
"We can’t do it alone. Members want a contract that reflects who delta is and where they are going. Sooner rather than later." -CM Dontaelli
With the passion we have come to expect: "[We are] Negotiating the best damn contract on the planet!" – Chairman Capt. Mike Donatelli
01-14-2015, 06:54 PM
#17
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,753
Donatelli's contract statements today per @Delta_MEC_Com. Posted in sequential order.
My takeaway...second hand quotes with a max 144 characters is a terrible way to communicate. Based on these quotes I have no clue where profit sharing fits into "the best damn contract on the planet." Does linking our gains to the gains of the company mean profit sharing? I don't know.
My takeaway...second hand quotes with a max 144 characters is a terrible way to communicate. Based on these quotes I have no clue where profit sharing fits into "the best damn contract on the planet." Does linking our gains to the gains of the company mean profit sharing? I don't know.
Not one reference to attaining C2K pay rates, forget about inflation adjustments.
Not one word about our decimated retirement plans.
Like it never happened.
01-15-2015, 05:11 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,049
Profit sharing is "incentive pay", different from pay rates. Its taxed differently, paid differently and before it really amounted to much, we didn't hear boo about giving it back.
Now that it is paying out, we get "tweets" and reps in lounges whispering "I'd give it up for XX%"
DO BETTER!!!!!!!!
Now that it is paying out, we get "tweets" and reps in lounges whispering "I'd give it up for XX%"
DO BETTER!!!!!!!!
01-15-2015, 05:15 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 757/767
Posts: 588
Here's an excerpt from the daily MEC meeting update email sent out this morning. It provides context to yesterday's tweets and adds evidence to my hypothesis that Twitter is a terrible form of communication.
Some formatting was lost in the copy/paste but I bolded the section that has garnered the most attention.
Some formatting was lost in the copy/paste but I bolded the section that has garnered the most attention.
We negotiate contracts. Contract 2015 is here and now
We enforce your contract. In 2014, over $1.5 million put in pilots’ pockets due to effective enforcement practices.
We support our profession. The fight to Deny NAI continues, and we have forged a strategic link with Delta management against State Owned Enterprises. ALPA PAC is now over 20 percent participation, thanks mainly to a 70 percent participation rate by new hires.
There’s no doubt that these messages matter, and encompass what ALPA does for the Delta Pilots on the macro level. We will continue to be diligent on these issues, but we must not ignore the opportunity before us. We must focus on Contract 2015, because this is our year.
This is our year to sync ourselves more closely to the success of our airline. I will say that this is our year to cross the finish line in delivering what pilots expect in a contract. We can make improvements to our Pilot Working Agreement, we can put an end to revisionist history, and we can put our focus on the future.
With that said, I would like to focus our message on three ideas:
Our contract must be tied to our company.
We are the single most influential group at Delta Air Lines, being both figuratively and literally at the controls. As such, we need a contract that is tied to the success of Delta. Today, even with profit sharing (a term that should be re-named "At Risk Compensation", or “Variable Compensation”), Delta's profits are up-gapping beyond our contract. Variable Compensation is the link to the ups and downs at Delta; it is the volatile piece in this cyclical business.
This is our time to act.
The profitability of Delta is, by many measures, beyond what we could have imagined just a few years ago. For the first time in airline contract negotiating history, virtually every vector is in our favor; mainline growth, low fuel costs, planned aircraft deliveries, economic forecasts and looming on the horizon, pilot retirements.
All of these play perfectly to the ability to capitalize now. To lock in gains now.
And surely not by following the countless examples of others who argue over the slice only to lose the whole pie by failing to act.
We can't do it alone.
The survey data is clear. Our members want a contract that reflects what Delta has become, and where it is going. Our pilots also tell us they want it sooner rather than later. We need everyone to row the boat together aggressively to the finish. We must activate our pilots through P2P & DPN. We need pilot activism at LEC meetings, at PUB events, participating when called upon, all twelve thousand of us! We must never forget that it’s all about our pilots!
We enforce your contract. In 2014, over $1.5 million put in pilots’ pockets due to effective enforcement practices.
We support our profession. The fight to Deny NAI continues, and we have forged a strategic link with Delta management against State Owned Enterprises. ALPA PAC is now over 20 percent participation, thanks mainly to a 70 percent participation rate by new hires.
There’s no doubt that these messages matter, and encompass what ALPA does for the Delta Pilots on the macro level. We will continue to be diligent on these issues, but we must not ignore the opportunity before us. We must focus on Contract 2015, because this is our year.
This is our year to sync ourselves more closely to the success of our airline. I will say that this is our year to cross the finish line in delivering what pilots expect in a contract. We can make improvements to our Pilot Working Agreement, we can put an end to revisionist history, and we can put our focus on the future.
With that said, I would like to focus our message on three ideas:
Our contract must be tied to our company.
We are the single most influential group at Delta Air Lines, being both figuratively and literally at the controls. As such, we need a contract that is tied to the success of Delta. Today, even with profit sharing (a term that should be re-named "At Risk Compensation", or “Variable Compensation”), Delta's profits are up-gapping beyond our contract. Variable Compensation is the link to the ups and downs at Delta; it is the volatile piece in this cyclical business.
This is our time to act.
The profitability of Delta is, by many measures, beyond what we could have imagined just a few years ago. For the first time in airline contract negotiating history, virtually every vector is in our favor; mainline growth, low fuel costs, planned aircraft deliveries, economic forecasts and looming on the horizon, pilot retirements.
All of these play perfectly to the ability to capitalize now. To lock in gains now.
And surely not by following the countless examples of others who argue over the slice only to lose the whole pie by failing to act.
We can't do it alone.
The survey data is clear. Our members want a contract that reflects what Delta has become, and where it is going. Our pilots also tell us they want it sooner rather than later. We need everyone to row the boat together aggressively to the finish. We must activate our pilots through P2P & DPN. We need pilot activism at LEC meetings, at PUB events, participating when called upon, all twelve thousand of us! We must never forget that it’s all about our pilots!
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