Delta 30 Gates In SEA
12-02-2014, 09:48 AM
#221
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 148
True, for now anyway.
Although common. New routes are almost always started with the RJ's now-a-days. The plan is, of course, to build it up and hopefully shift it to mainline. I'm to lazy to get you a list of former RJ routes that have gone to the 717 in the past year, but it's pretty extensive. There's the persistent rumor of either a 73 or 717 base opening in Seattle soon. Might be waiting to see how these RJ loads play out. Time will tell.
Although common. New routes are almost always started with the RJ's now-a-days. The plan is, of course, to build it up and hopefully shift it to mainline. I'm to lazy to get you a list of former RJ routes that have gone to the 717 in the past year, but it's pretty extensive. There's the persistent rumor of either a 73 or 717 base opening in Seattle soon. Might be waiting to see how these RJ loads play out. Time will tell.
12-02-2014, 09:48 AM
#222
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,595
Although I am a newbie, I know enough to absolutely agree! 
Now, for all y'all DAL bubbas, what are your feelings on all the increased flying out of SEA to be done by Skywest or Compass:
On December 20, Delta will begin service from Seattle to several destinations, including:
Bozeman, Mont. (Skywest);
Palm Springs, Calif. (Skywest);
Phoenix (Skywest)
and Tucson, Ariz. (Compass).
Additionally, at the beginning of November, Delta commenced service to:
Calgary (Skywest)
and Spokane, Wash. (Compass & Skywest).
Finally, new flights for next year:
Five daily flights to Denver, beginning June 4 (Compass)
Four daily flights to Sacramento, Calif., beginning May 4 (Compass & Skywest)
Four daily flights to Boise, Idaho, beginning May 4 (Skywest)
One seasonal daily flight to Ketchikan, Alaska beginning May 15 (Skywest)
One seasonal daily flight to Sitka, Alaska beginning May 15 (Skywest)
That is a LOT of "Delta" flights not flown by DAL bubbas, and y'all have a scope clause.
So, in some ways, it seems Delta has replaced Alaska feed in SEA with Skywest and Compass? Not good for either pilot group, it seems.
Now, for all y'all DAL bubbas, what are your feelings on all the increased flying out of SEA to be done by Skywest or Compass:
On December 20, Delta will begin service from Seattle to several destinations, including:
Bozeman, Mont. (Skywest);
Palm Springs, Calif. (Skywest);
Phoenix (Skywest)
and Tucson, Ariz. (Compass).
Additionally, at the beginning of November, Delta commenced service to:
Calgary (Skywest)
and Spokane, Wash. (Compass & Skywest).
Finally, new flights for next year:
Five daily flights to Denver, beginning June 4 (Compass)
Four daily flights to Sacramento, Calif., beginning May 4 (Compass & Skywest)
Four daily flights to Boise, Idaho, beginning May 4 (Skywest)
One seasonal daily flight to Ketchikan, Alaska beginning May 15 (Skywest)
One seasonal daily flight to Sitka, Alaska beginning May 15 (Skywest)
That is a LOT of "Delta" flights not flown by DAL bubbas, and y'all have a scope clause.
So, in some ways, it seems Delta has replaced Alaska feed in SEA with Skywest and Compass? Not good for either pilot group, it seems.
12-02-2014, 09:56 AM
#223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,595
One of the reasons that the code share with Alaska fell apart was that Alaska had already done their research and determined that many, if not most of the routes being picked up by Delta, I mean their regionals, were routes that couldn't be profitably flown with larger equipment. I guess the school of hard knocks will reveal that to Delta sooner or later.
Consolidated passenger unit revenue (PRASM) for the month of November increased 4.5 percent year over year, driven by the strong unit revenue performance in the domestic entity, with particular strength in Atlanta and Seattle, along with the calendar placement of the Thanksgiving holiday which shifted the highest revenue day of the year from December back into November.
12-02-2014, 10:55 AM
#224
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 31
Although I am a newbie, I know enough to absolutely agree!
Now, for all y'all DAL bubbas, what are your feelings on all the increased flying out of SEA to be done by Skywest or Compass:
On December 20, Delta will begin service from Seattle to several destinations, including:
Bozeman, Mont. (Skywest);
Palm Springs, Calif. (Skywest);
Phoenix (Skywest)
and Tucson, Ariz. (Compass).
Additionally, at the beginning of November, Delta commenced service to:
Calgary (Skywest)
and Spokane, Wash. (Compass & Skywest).
Finally, new flights for next year:
Five daily flights to Denver, beginning June 4 (Compass)
Four daily flights to Sacramento, Calif., beginning May 4 (Compass & Skywest)
Four daily flights to Boise, Idaho, beginning May 4 (Skywest)
One seasonal daily flight to Ketchikan, Alaska beginning May 15 (Skywest)
One seasonal daily flight to Sitka, Alaska beginning May 15 (Skywest)
That is a LOT of "Delta" flights not flown by DAL bubbas, and y'all have a scope clause.
So, in some ways, it seems Delta has replaced Alaska feed in SEA with Skywest and Compass? Not good for either pilot group, it seems.
Now, for all y'all DAL bubbas, what are your feelings on all the increased flying out of SEA to be done by Skywest or Compass:
On December 20, Delta will begin service from Seattle to several destinations, including:
Bozeman, Mont. (Skywest);
Palm Springs, Calif. (Skywest);
Phoenix (Skywest)
and Tucson, Ariz. (Compass).
Additionally, at the beginning of November, Delta commenced service to:
Calgary (Skywest)
and Spokane, Wash. (Compass & Skywest).
Finally, new flights for next year:
Five daily flights to Denver, beginning June 4 (Compass)
Four daily flights to Sacramento, Calif., beginning May 4 (Compass & Skywest)
Four daily flights to Boise, Idaho, beginning May 4 (Skywest)
One seasonal daily flight to Ketchikan, Alaska beginning May 15 (Skywest)
One seasonal daily flight to Sitka, Alaska beginning May 15 (Skywest)
That is a LOT of "Delta" flights not flown by DAL bubbas, and y'all have a scope clause.
So, in some ways, it seems Delta has replaced Alaska feed in SEA with Skywest and Compass? Not good for either pilot group, it seems.
Now, back to Alaska.....your current contract, when it comes to scope, has nothing. You guys have no real protection from management shipping out half of your flying.
I'd spend a lot less time pointing out gaps in our much better scope protection and hitting up your reps to come up with solutions for the fix you guys are in......namely, your fellow Alaska pilots and MEC who, for some insane reason, approved a contract with virtually no scope. Good luck.......you guys are gonna need it with all the big RJs that SkyWest has ordered that cannot fly under our contract, but can fly under yours.
12-02-2014, 03:11 PM
#225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 737 f/o
Posts: 299
Question back atya: if the DAL scope is so great and is reducing with all these RJ restrictions...how would it have protected you if Brad would have said..."sure, Alaska would love to feed your SEA expansion plan"?
12-02-2014, 03:15 PM
#226
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
To answer your question, yes it is concerning, absolutely. I agree that our biggest hurdle for better scope is our own pilot group. That being said, we're hiring & training close to our max capability right now. We also have exercised most of our 737 options and in fact persuaded Boeing for 10 more.
Question back atya: if the DAL scope is so great and is reducing with all these RJ restrictions...how would it have protected you if Brad would have said..."sure, Alaska would love to feed your SEA expansion plan"?
Question back atya: if the DAL scope is so great and is reducing with all these RJ restrictions...how would it have protected you if Brad would have said..."sure, Alaska would love to feed your SEA expansion plan"?
12-02-2014, 03:49 PM
#227
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 737 f/o
Posts: 299
12-02-2014, 04:20 PM
#228
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Why did we complain about it? Because we want more flying for Delta pilots, not you guys. It's really as simple as that.
12-02-2014, 04:41 PM
#229
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Not an expert on all things scope, but here is my take on Section 1 in regards to Alaska.
SEA and LAX are not considered hubs in regards to the AS code share. That is huge because there are strict scope limitations in regards to hub cities.
Between SEA-MSP and SEA-ATL flights, 50% of passengers on an Alaska jet could be Delta passengers.
On all other city pairs 35% of passengers could be Delta passengers.
I heard at a road show that we averaged about 20% of your seats that Delta sold.
If they wanted to they could have nearly doubled what they were selling.
AS flying Delta passengers was a much bigger threat to us as Delta pilots that what DCI can do.
Having the ability to have 1/3 of your jets filled up with Delta passengers is not a good deal. We are glad RA has decided to not go that route and I hope that in C2015 we remove the entire AS code share section from our Scope. Then you couldn't fly any of our passengers in jets with more than 76 seats.
12-02-2014, 04:52 PM
#230
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: DAL A320 CA
Posts: 559
Not very good. That is why we are happy to see the SEA growth that we are flying.
Not an expert on all things scope, but here is my take on Section 1 in regards to Alaska.
SEA and LAX are not considered hubs in regards to the AS code share. That is huge because there are strict scope limitations in regards to hub cities.
Between SEA-MSP and SEA-ATL flights, 50% of passengers on an Alaska jet could be Delta passengers.
On all other city pairs 35% of passengers could be Delta passengers.
I heard at a road show that we averaged about 20% of your seats that Delta sold.
If they wanted to they could have nearly doubled what they were selling.
AS flying Delta passengers was a much bigger threat to us as Delta pilots that what DCI can do.
Having the ability to have 1/3 of your jets filled up with Delta passengers is not a good deal. We are glad RA has decided to not go that route and I hope that in C2015 we remove the entire AS code share section from our Scope. Then you couldn't fly any of our passengers in jets with more than 76 seats.
Not an expert on all things scope, but here is my take on Section 1 in regards to Alaska.
SEA and LAX are not considered hubs in regards to the AS code share. That is huge because there are strict scope limitations in regards to hub cities.
Between SEA-MSP and SEA-ATL flights, 50% of passengers on an Alaska jet could be Delta passengers.
On all other city pairs 35% of passengers could be Delta passengers.
I heard at a road show that we averaged about 20% of your seats that Delta sold.
If they wanted to they could have nearly doubled what they were selling.
AS flying Delta passengers was a much bigger threat to us as Delta pilots that what DCI can do.
Having the ability to have 1/3 of your jets filled up with Delta passengers is not a good deal. We are glad RA has decided to not go that route and I hope that in C2015 we remove the entire AS code share section from our Scope. Then you couldn't fly any of our passengers in jets with more than 76 seats.
This little CEO spat basically filled a big hole in our scope regarding AS. Good for pilots on both sides for growth in the short term, and more likely that both will strengthen scope in the long term.
Win-win for DL and AS pilots, but only if AS pilots can hold off SKW long enough for them to fix their scope or for SKW to run out of pilots to fly those big MRJ's.
Jmho..
Last edited by CGfalconHerc; 12-02-2014 at 05:19 PM.
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