ryane946

I just read a thread on another board saying ICAO is lowering their standards down to ONLY 70 hours of flight time to fly in the right seat of a 737 or A320 "to accomidate foreign airlines, especially those in Asia and the Middle East that face shortages of pilots, to more quickly train and hire flight crews."

It seems ICAO has no regard for safety (come on, 70 hours and poof your in the right seat of a 737/A320!). Does anyone think this would be the SAME REASON ICAO changed the retirement age from 60 to 65. To accomidate the shortage of pilots??

Obviously a 65 year old pilot is safer than a 70 hour pilot, but I feel there is a reason why we have age 60 in place. Sure raising it to 65 would be better for economics, but I don't feel it is good for safety.

Here is the thread if you are interested. I have lost my respect for ICAO.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...ad.php?p=91627

Randal

Where do you people come up with this kind of bulls234, in the us a person can fly in the right seat without a type rating, and only a "working knowledge" of the aircraft in question, and you find this is SAFE wow. I have a friend that flys for "miami air" no type rating, in the right seat of a NGB737800 holy smoke do i think i`d put my family on that plane, NOT. On the other hand i fly in India and the co-pilots (A320) must have a type rating, and not that FAA small time stuff this is 3 weeks ground school, and 28 DAYS of sim (i.e. a REAL type rating) --AND then the capt is only allowed to give flying from/to 1000 feet, until the F/O has 300 hrs on type,--you want more hows this it took me 3 months of hard study to pass a British ALTP written, for the FAA ATP i went to the all ATP`s place, they put me in front of a computor for 10 HOURS , i then sat test ignored the 5/6 questions on performance/flt planning, passed with 88% and you have "lost your respect for ICAO"

jungle

There is no substitute for experience. The ICAO changes have been driven by pilot shortages. A complicated written test or 28 days in a SIM don't produce a better pilot, experience does. When that experience includes many countries, climes, aircraft and operations that span the globe you have a pilot.
What we are seeing now is explosive growth in certain markets and a struggle to fill the pilot seats in a non-traditional manner. Randal, you knew what you were doing before you took that test. Did the test make you a better pilot?

MikeB525

Holy freakin damn. I have more than twice that TT and I won't even fly in IMC alone!

Nashmd11

No Shict! This is common knowledge for people who do some research. India and China started this ball rolling about three years ago. India claimed the pilot shortage was costing the country 2-3% GNP per year. Now one must give a 12 month notice to any Indian airline if one wants to quit. Or the govt. cancels one's certificate immediately. The pilot shortage in these countries started this whole thing with the ICAO leading the way.

Typhoonpilot

Actually, you are all wrong. The reason for the ICAO change is that the European Union rules against age discrimination have to be followed. The age 60 rule is contrary to the European Union rules against age discrimination. Simple as that, no conspiracy theory needed.


Typhoonpilot

hyflyt560

I have to agree, 70 hours would not be enough to satisfactorily operate a transport jet. The USAF sends guys into combat in single seat fighters with fairly low time with great success (as always, thanks for the overhead cover from an Army guy)...maybe an AF guy could shed some light on the hours?! In the Army, we have Apache, Blackhawk, Chinook drivers with low time flying in the desert, Afghanistan, Mt. Hood, etc. And, in the US, part 121 FOs get more than a "working knowledge" of the aircraft we fly. By and large, we get the same training the Captain is getting, just in the other seat. It partly comes down to the structure of the training.

jungle

Typhoon pilot, No conspiracy implied. I'm a little old to believe in conspiracies, but I do believe in market forces. The 70 hour requirement isn't about age discrimination and it's my understanding that not all airlines in the EU allow their pilots to fly past 60 and the EU can't force them to. So again, market forces are impacting the rules in an effort to fill seats for markets that are having a tough time doing so in the normal manner.

FoxHunter

Sorry, this ball has been rolling at ICAO for well over fifteen years. http://www.age60rule.com/

Randal

1st--Jungle i totally agree with you.

2nd the above is another reason why one should "engage brain, before opening mouth" obviously you did not do any "research" allow me to bring this unaccompanied minor up to speed--In India about 3 years ago a couple of airlines (air deccan the 1st) decided that "bringing flying in reach of the ordinary man was needed" so low cost airlines were born, the pay in these airlines was such that it attracted many qualified pilots from,air India, and Indian airlines (both govt airlines) also these new airlines decided to persuade the DGCA to go to age 65 since ICAO was going there anyhow, this also meant that lots of 60 and about to 60 senior capts decided to quit the govt airlines and head on over to eg air deccan, --in turn this brought on a major shortage of qualified Indian capts, in order to stop the mass "poaching" that was going on the DGCA, came up with something called a NOC, which means -no objection clause. and a 6 MONTH waiting period during which INDIAN PILOTS ONLY have to remain in thier present job, for expats there is no such rule.
As regards 70 hours what on earth are you lot going on about, in air deccan which is like many other airlines worldwide, the minimum qualifications, for employment as a first officier are--4 yrs college or equiv, a commercial licence, with instument rating, and multi-engine. speak english, and 21 yrs old, then if you are selected they give you a type rating on whatever, and endless other--day landings, night landings, 150 hrs IOE, 5 route cks, CRM, HAZMAT, SECURITY,PERFOMANCE, CKS TO WEIRD PLACES , (like port blair) and still you can`t land/t/o until u have 300 hrs, -----now this is ICAO, what was your point again