Why does the Airbus STOP on the runway?
12-17-2006, 07:20 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Captain, CRJ-200, ASA
Posts: 876
Not exactly.
You're expected to take the first exit consistent with safety . . . I don't recall the exact verbiage, but I'll look it up. If you can safely exit at midfield, you do not have clearance to taxi to the end.
[EDIT TO ADD:]
Aeronautical Information Manual -- Section 3. Airport Operations
.
You're expected to take the first exit consistent with safety . . . I don't recall the exact verbiage, but I'll look it up. If you can safely exit at midfield, you do not have clearance to taxi to the end.
[EDIT TO ADD:]
Aeronautical Information Manual -- Section 3. Airport Operations
.
The AIM is noncompulsory. We're EXPECTED to exit, but not required to.
12-17-2006, 07:28 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Captain, CRJ-200, ASA
Posts: 876
Yo John,
I don't believe that my post was a "complaint" by any stretch, but merely one of asking a question about what I've observed from the Tower. You know... exchange of information and all that. I would imagine that the guys in the cockpit on short final or holding in position behind you would be a little more perturbed than me when you stop on the runway and cause other aircraft to go around or incur additional delays.
I don't believe that my post was a "complaint" by any stretch, but merely one of asking a question about what I've observed from the Tower. You know... exchange of information and all that. I would imagine that the guys in the cockpit on short final or holding in position behind you would be a little more perturbed than me when you stop on the runway and cause other aircraft to go around or incur additional delays.
You are absolutely right: I've cleared you to land... you own the runway... feel free to do with it as you please. Just one more question though: When I have to send you around for another tour of Mississippi because one of your brethren stopped on the runway or rolled all the way to the end, I wonder if you are cursing ATC or the offending flight crew? ATC makes every attempt to predict what you might do, but we can only anticipate your actions based on past experience -- and stopping on the runway is somewhat unusual in a busy terminal environment.
Each airport has an "acceptance rate", and that is based on the number of runways in use, weather, type of approaches in use, sectors open and a number of other human factors.
On a good day, we clear you to land... tell the next guy to taxi into position and hold... clear another guy to land and exchange traffic... tell you to turn off the runway... clear the next guy for takeoff... and repeat until the shift ends. When you throw in training in the Tower, training in the TRACON, training in the cockpit, wet runways, reduced braking action, runway or taxiway construction, wind shear, reduced visibility, disabled aircraft, ATC equipment failures and etc... well.. the good day suddenly turns into an interesting day.
On a good day, we clear you to land... tell the next guy to taxi into position and hold... clear another guy to land and exchange traffic... tell you to turn off the runway... clear the next guy for takeoff... and repeat until the shift ends. When you throw in training in the Tower, training in the TRACON, training in the cockpit, wet runways, reduced braking action, runway or taxiway construction, wind shear, reduced visibility, disabled aircraft, ATC equipment failures and etc... well.. the good day suddenly turns into an interesting day.
I believe that we do our best on each and every day. Do we make mistakes? You betcha. Do we try to get everyone on the ground as soon as possible so that you can get home and your passengers or cargo can get to their final destination? You betcha. Do we ask you to "expedite", "make short approach" or "depart without delay"? You betcha.
It is perfectly legal for me to use such phrases to expedite the flow of traffic. It is also perfectly legal and accepted for you to say "unable". If I ask (or tell) you to do something that you are unable to accomplish, or maybe you just don't feel comfortable with... PLEASE tell me "UNABLE!" That one word allows me a few extra seconds to execute Plan B.
I'm not hear to complain. But I would like to ask a few questions and hopefully obtain some additional info from you that will help me conduct my job with a little more understanding of what your job is like.
MEM_ATC
It is perfectly legal for me to use such phrases to expedite the flow of traffic. It is also perfectly legal and accepted for you to say "unable". If I ask (or tell) you to do something that you are unable to accomplish, or maybe you just don't feel comfortable with... PLEASE tell me "UNABLE!" That one word allows me a few extra seconds to execute Plan B.
I'm not hear to complain. But I would like to ask a few questions and hopefully obtain some additional info from you that will help me conduct my job with a little more understanding of what your job is like.
MEM_ATC
And I should probably add that I have NEVER been disatisfied in MEM. Y'all do a great job out there. My gripe is 'da ATL.
12-17-2006, 09:37 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: Lazy-boy Captain
Posts: 242
I understand that it's LEGAL for you to tell me to expedite, then start issuing taxi instructions before I even have the nose wheel down, but that doesn't make it safe or smart. At that point, I'm too busy to even comprehend what they said, much less utter "tell him unable".
And I should probably add that I have NEVER been disatisfied in MEM. Y'all do a great job out there. My gripe is 'da ATL.[/QUOTE]
I would really like to just stop on the runway some day after
some Tower puke reads me taxi insturctions that have the length
of War and Peace. Just sit there and tell him I am very sorry I was
trying to get this 140 thousand pound aircraft stopped on a short
slippery runway and I totally missed his instructions.
Please say again and speak slower.
That might help train those folks to help instead of hinder.
And I should probably add that I have NEVER been disatisfied in MEM. Y'all do a great job out there. My gripe is 'da ATL.[/QUOTE]
I would really like to just stop on the runway some day after
some Tower puke reads me taxi insturctions that have the length
of War and Peace. Just sit there and tell him I am very sorry I was
trying to get this 140 thousand pound aircraft stopped on a short
slippery runway and I totally missed his instructions.
Please say again and speak slower.
That might help train those folks to help instead of hinder.
12-18-2006, 08:56 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Captain, CRJ-200, ASA
Posts: 876
I would really like to just stop on the runway some day after
some Tower puke reads me taxi insturctions that have the length
of War and Peace. Just sit there and tell him I am very sorry I was
trying to get this 140 thousand pound aircraft stopped on a short
slippery runway and I totally missed his instructions.
Please say again and speak slower.
That might help train those folks to help instead of hinder.
some Tower puke reads me taxi insturctions that have the length
of War and Peace. Just sit there and tell him I am very sorry I was
trying to get this 140 thousand pound aircraft stopped on a short
slippery runway and I totally missed his instructions.
Please say again and speak slower.
That might help train those folks to help instead of hinder.
Or as the urban legend goes, the very senior Delta L-1011 captain who replies (after the world's longest clearance):
(In the thickest Southern Drawl you've ever heard) Was what you just saaaaid imporrrtant?
Uh yes sir, that's your clearance.
Well why don't you slow down and saaay it like it's important!
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