Why does the Airbus STOP on the runway?
12-13-2006, 11:47 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Just ignore them. And when they keep calling, just respond with "sorry, I was on the landline, who was calling?".
12-13-2006, 03:00 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Austin Tower
Posts: 175
Yo John,
I don't believe that my post was a "complaint" by any stretch, but merely one of asking a question about what I've observed from the Tower. You know... exchange of information and all that. I would imagine that the guys in the cockpit on short final or holding in position behind you would be a little more perturbed than me when you stop on the runway and cause other aircraft to go around or incur additional delays.
You are absolutely right: I've cleared you to land... you own the runway... feel free to do with it as you please. Just one more question though: When I have to send you around for another tour of Mississippi because one of your brethren stopped on the runway or rolled all the way to the end, I wonder if you are cursing ATC or the offending flight crew? ATC makes every attempt to predict what you might do, but we can only anticipate your actions based on past experience -- and stopping on the runway is somewhat unusual in a busy terminal environment.
I'm sorry that this troubles you, but it is often necessary to salvage a situation that has gone bad.
Each airport has an "acceptance rate", and that is based on the number of runways in use, weather, type of approaches in use, sectors open and a number of other human factors.
On a good day, we clear you to land... tell the next guy to taxi into position and hold... clear another guy to land and exchange traffic... tell you to turn off the runway... clear the next guy for takeoff... and repeat until the shift ends. When you throw in training in the Tower, training in the TRACON, training in the cockpit, wet runways, reduced braking action, runway or taxiway construction, wind shear, reduced visibility, disabled aircraft, ATC equipment failures and etc... well.. the good day suddenly turns into an interesting day.
I believe that we do our best on each and every day. Do we make mistakes? You betcha. Do we try to get everyone on the ground as soon as possible so that you can get home and your passengers or cargo can get to their final destination? You betcha. Do we ask you to "expedite", "make short approach" or "depart without delay"? You betcha.
It is perfectly legal for me to use such phrases to expedite the flow of traffic. It is also perfectly legal and accepted for you to say "unable". If I ask (or tell) you to do something that you are unable to accomplish, or maybe you just don't feel comfortable with... PLEASE tell me "UNABLE!" That one word allows me a few extra seconds to execute Plan B.
I'm not hear to complain. But I would like to ask a few questions and hopefully obtain some additional info from you that will help me conduct my job with a little more understanding of what your job is like.
MEM_ATC
When you clear us to land, we OWN that runway until we exit, and it's our discretion to roll as far as we want to (providing we haven't accepted a LAHSO clearance) or slow as much as our judgement says is safety prudent before turning off. If you packed the guy behind me in too tight, that's your misfortune.
Oh, and don't be calling us during the roll out to say expedite either.
Each airport has an "acceptance rate", and that is based on the number of runways in use, weather, type of approaches in use, sectors open and a number of other human factors.
On a good day, we clear you to land... tell the next guy to taxi into position and hold... clear another guy to land and exchange traffic... tell you to turn off the runway... clear the next guy for takeoff... and repeat until the shift ends. When you throw in training in the Tower, training in the TRACON, training in the cockpit, wet runways, reduced braking action, runway or taxiway construction, wind shear, reduced visibility, disabled aircraft, ATC equipment failures and etc... well.. the good day suddenly turns into an interesting day.
I believe that we do our best on each and every day. Do we make mistakes? You betcha. Do we try to get everyone on the ground as soon as possible so that you can get home and your passengers or cargo can get to their final destination? You betcha. Do we ask you to "expedite", "make short approach" or "depart without delay"? You betcha.
It is perfectly legal for me to use such phrases to expedite the flow of traffic. It is also perfectly legal and accepted for you to say "unable". If I ask (or tell) you to do something that you are unable to accomplish, or maybe you just don't feel comfortable with... PLEASE tell me "UNABLE!" That one word allows me a few extra seconds to execute Plan B.
I'm not hear to complain. But I would like to ask a few questions and hopefully obtain some additional info from you that will help me conduct my job with a little more understanding of what your job is like.
MEM_ATC
Last edited by AUS_ATC; 12-13-2006 at 06:40 PM.
12-13-2006, 06:53 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
Hey, don't take offense at these responses. You guys and gals at Memphis ARTCC, Approach, Tower, and ground, do a great job, day in and day out. Keep up the good work. Personally, I try never to have to be in Memphis, but over the years, I've always felt you guys were the best. Have a Happy Holiday Season.
12-13-2006, 07:05 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 840
Hey ATC guy. Just for your information the people *****ing are not from CAL. We especially like the outstanding job you all do and would appreciate any kind taxi instructions which would put us ahead in line or for takeoff. Thanks for your time and AWESOME job. Memphis is my favorite. CAL pilots. BTW why are you guys such dicks to the guys on UHF from KBAD? Just kidding.
12-13-2006, 07:49 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 675
With all due respect to our friendly ATC folks, it always irks me when y'all complain we don't get off the runway fast enough.
When you clear us to land, we OWN that runway until we exit, and it's our discretion to roll as far as we want to (providing we haven't accepted a LAHSO clearance) or slow as much as our judgement says is safety prudent before turning off. If you packed the guy behind me in too tight, that's your misfortune. Oh, and don't be calling us during the roll out to say expedite either.
When you clear us to land, we OWN that runway until we exit, and it's our discretion to roll as far as we want to (providing we haven't accepted a LAHSO clearance) or slow as much as our judgement says is safety prudent before turning off. If you packed the guy behind me in too tight, that's your misfortune. Oh, and don't be calling us during the roll out to say expedite either.
12-13-2006, 08:53 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Austin Tower
Posts: 175
Jetjok,
No offense taken. These comments and opinions are just like landings... some are better than others!
MEM_ATC
Hey, don't take offense at these responses. You guys and gals at Memphis ARTCC, Approach, Tower, and ground, do a great job, day in and day out. Keep up the good work. Personally, I try never to have to be in Memphis, but over the years, I've always felt you guys were the best. Have a Happy Holiday Season.
MEM_ATC
12-13-2006, 08:56 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Austin Tower
Posts: 175
reCALcitrant,
Hang on a sec while I change the sequence... you're now number one for departure! Seriously though, we try to be fair to all of you -- and ultimately get everyone on the ground or in the air as quickly and safely as possible. Thanks for the kind words.
MEM_ATC
Hey ATC guy. Just for your information the people *****ing are not from CAL. We especially like the outstanding job you all do and would appreciate any kind taxi instructions which would put us ahead in line or for takeoff. Thanks for your time and AWESOME job. Memphis is my favorite. CAL pilots. BTW why are you guys such dicks to the guys on UHF from KBAD? Just kidding.
MEM_ATC
12-14-2006, 08:14 AM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: A300 F/O
Posts: 85
One reason is the limitations of our Flight Manual
Turns of 90 10 kts
Turns of 45 15 kts
High speed turn off 20 kts
It may seem we are stopping but are slowing down to take a 90 turn off. Also these speeds are max speeds and will vary depending on experience and if a Friendly Aviation Authority guy or his representative is sitting behind you.
As one guy said if you want us to take a certain high speed let us know on final not when we are still trying to slow down just after landing as soon as the nose wheel hits the ground. In all you guys do a great job for us.
Thanks
Turns of 90 10 kts
Turns of 45 15 kts
High speed turn off 20 kts
It may seem we are stopping but are slowing down to take a 90 turn off. Also these speeds are max speeds and will vary depending on experience and if a Friendly Aviation Authority guy or his representative is sitting behind you.
As one guy said if you want us to take a certain high speed let us know on final not when we are still trying to slow down just after landing as soon as the nose wheel hits the ground. In all you guys do a great job for us.
Thanks
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