Airway

Anybody else read the part that says: "The pilot in command and the certificate holder may extend the maximum flight duty period permitted in Tables B or C of this part up to 2 hours"?


Does this mean the company and the PIC jointly must approve it? So for example, company asks the captain "hey boss, can you go another 2 hours" and the boss says either yes or no (which I assume means he speaks for the FO which is kind of B.S. in this situation).

Seems like an odd thing to have in there. It's like ALPA language.

DLpilot

Yep. PIC must concur to allow a 2 hour extension.

MachJ

I found this in the new ALPA FAR 117 guide:

Q-29. Is the concurrence of the PIC necessary if a FDP extension is required for another flightcrew member, and could the PIC concur to an extension less than 2 hours?

A-29. The PIC must concur in all FDP extensions over 30 minutes even if it is for another flightcrew member. The PIC can also concur to only a shorter extension that he/she believes can safely be carried out even though the certificate holder wants a full 2-hour extension. The certificate holder must
keep a record of the PIC’s concurrence.


Q-30. If the PIC concurs with the carrier for a 2-hour FDP extension, can the FO refuse the extension?

A-30. Yes. Each individual flightcrew member must “sign off” that they are fit to fly before each segment, i.e., the PIC can accept a 2-hour extension but the FO can independently state he/she is not fit for further duty and could not under the circumstances accept the extension.


I hope this helps.

bruhaha

If the FO had a 2hr flight duty period extension previously, he cannot do another 2 hr extension unless he gets 30hrs off.

The 2 hr extension for the duty period only applies prior to takeoff. Once you takeoff, you can extend the duty period for as long as it takes to get the airplane on the ground and then you're done.

Airway

Thanks guys...That clears it up... Though it does seem that for the FO, a refusal is treated more or less like a fatigue call.

Bearcat57

Under the new FAR 117, both crew members will sign the release stating they are fit for duty, so when it comes to extensions, the FO will have a say relative to his fitness for the duty causing the extension.

gloopy

I'd say its more "less" than it is more.

Not signing a voluntary extention is a far cry from "making that call".

Oberon

You are thing about it wrong. Both pilots must be on board for an extension over 30 minutes. The captain has veto authority if he or she believes the FO isn't fit for duty. The captain can't unilaterally extend an FO.

captain152

Is the Q and A for the new 117 rules on the FAA website somewhere? Thanks!

GogglesPisano

Not sure about the FAA. ALPA has a good one. Try this ... http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/com...7_11-20-13.pdf

If it doesn't work, go to ALPA Members Only home page --> ALPA Toobox --> Flight and Duty Time (scroll down) --> Guide to Part 117 (on right).