Sliceback

Not only does it not smell right the facts don't support it either. DL's posted their averages for CIV, CIV/MIL, and MIL. AA's told us what their average was.

AA - 5556 TT (no other data given).

DL -

# TT PIC

CIV 502 7656 4126

C/M 233 4938 2955

MIL 728 3119 2249


There's no way the bell curve stops 344 hrs above the average. That means, with a standard bell curve, that the minimum civilian new hire would have 7212 hrs.

None of this shows the additional duties, union work, or other airline industry, professional, or civic leadership boxes checked. Type ratings, qualifications/experience vs age, vs peers, type of flying, etc, etc.

Or how many times the candidates presented themselves formally to the recruiting teams.

I spoke with a candidate recently. He's an airline employee. His airline's recruiters know him by name. He's been told "you can't just walk up and hand us a resume. You have to present yourself at job fairs."

There's some unknown value at the job fairs. And, at least at his airline, walking into the recruiting office, again and again, doesn't help.

Here's another number that jumps out at me, 16% of the DL numbers above are civ/mil. Anyone think 16% of a major airline's pilot corps has a civ/mil background before they got hired? I'd guess it's low single digits which seems to indicate that getting civilian, and I'd highly suggest 121, flying might be a great resume kicker for separating military pilots. It's a learning curve and IMO a 121 regional job will prepare you better for the big job better than other choice out there. That's a fairly common belief amongst other recruiting volunteers so I wouldn't be surprised if the people that set up the various recruiting filtering programs assign value to that.

Sliceback

The "smell right" comment was about an 8000 hr limit. There is some data that older guys, which would be linked to higher time guys, struggle with new a/c training. Where that cross-over IDK but anyone try teaching their grandparents something new? Yes, higher time guys could be grandparents. I know my peers are.

toobdrvr1

TT is a terrible determinant of age. There are plenty of low time guys in their 50s and high-time guys in their 20s and 30s. I'm pretty sure that people who spend all day looking at applicants know that...

I believe the whole "too much time" myth
comes frome the fact that as hours increase, the representative numbers in the applicant pool decrease. Therefore, fewer applicants are chosen at higher time because there's simply fewer of them. I highly doubt (and have yet to see proof) that it is being used as a discriminator.

At least I hope not.

Sliceback

Personally I'd rate high time young guys, with a good career path and other attributes, highly. Their resumes probably show a great drive, and love, of the industry. Throw in a personality that likes to laugh, kid around, and at the same time demonstrates an awareness of the professionalism needed in the business and, to me at least, it's a winning combination. Anyone know how to demonstrate that through a computer program? I don't. But maybe at a job fair...

That's why being able to tell your story, in under two minutes, with no gaps or mistakes so it doesn't become a resume grinding review(when was this? Where? What's this gap?), is important. Now you can relax a bit and respond naturally to the questions, or interests, the reviewer wants to go over.

Aquaticus

Not true. United has a history of lawsuits against the HR department and no one involved in hiring would every say this. If someone did say that then they are removed from the process and it is as good as rumor. Their average new hire is right around 5500 TT but that is skewed because of military, well connected, and interns. The average regional guy with no special boxes checked is well above 9000 tt with multiple types and generally has maxed out the points from letters of rec. Most of the people I interviewed with had 10,000+ hours. How many letters does it take to max out the points? The people that know are not talking.

John Carr

Good point.

A friend of mine at UAL a while back had over 10K TT, 2 types, 4k TPIC. One of the LOWEST time and least type ratings in their class. And in their mid 30's they were the "8 ball".

And not surprising, but the class after had an average that was lower in almost all categories.

Sliceback

And then there's the white male, early 30's, goes to job fair after job fair after job fair after job.... All the major recruiting teams know him on a first name basis. Probably 5,000 hrs TT. Regional FO. Doing a bunch of flight department work. Upgrades and immediately gets hired with probably less than 100 hrs TPIC.

Or a 28 yr old, four type ratings, international heavy jet experience, regional experience, and corporate TPIC time. He identified weaknesses in his resume and worked on correcting those deficiencies. He also got hired.

So it's not just a numbers game, or some anti civilian, or anti white male, program. Figure out what boxes you havn't checked, or are weak in, and improve your resume.

Anyone think that perhaps the people getting two or three offers might be that impressive, at least on paper? And then they get to prove themselves via the F2F?

sandrich

Some good discussion here. I hate to hijack a "who's been hired" thread but going along with the current theme, I've heard a few things I was hoping someone could clarify regarding United:

At NGPA I met with BK. His advice to me was to "keep coming to these things." At WAI, a recruiter told me job fairs actually don't count towards anything. You don't get points, extra credit, or anything like that. His/her explanation was that "one of us might be doing your interview, so it's good that you've already met one of us."

Also, that letters of recommendation aren't even weighed/scored until your interview. AND I've heard that they only count up to 4 of them. He/she said that internals are weighed the same as externals, with the exception of an internal CP letter being worth more. When I ask "what can I do to help my chances of being offered an interview" I keep being told to get as many letters as I can. Then, 5 minutes later, they tell me they aren't even considered until AFTER the interview. What gives?

FlyNavyHawkeyes

I asked the HR woman I met with during my Fast Pass if being at WAI made any difference and she said it was our chance to have a face to face and ask any questions we might have. She did say that if someone makes an outstanding impression it can accelerate the process, but that's it.

United hiring brief put out the same information.

Conversely, if you meet with DAL at a job fair they'll score your app.

It's all smoke and mirrors to me at this point.

RJSAviator76

SWA CJO

8000TT
3000 TPIC
4200 in 737's - 1700 PIC in type
4-year degree
LCA background
Expat

No job fairs