duffrick

Even though I realize you guys in the Air Force are studs, the question I would want to have answered if I were a passenger on one of your 16 hour flights is this; How sharp are you really after one of those long flights? Also, nobody in the Air Force is asking you to do that kind of flying for 30 years!

Studies have shown that past a certain point in sleep depravation, you start to act and react as if you've been drinking. Flying+Drinking=Bad Combo. The flying public is adamant about two things: One, pilots don't work enough. Two, nobody wants a tired pilot behind the controls, especially their flight to Disney World! Contradictory, I know, but those are the facts.

org1

That determination was made before foreign airlines were allowed to use over age 60 pilots in US airspace. It still may not be age discrimination (that's subject to change with different courts, anyway) but it is certainly discriminatory. It pretty well lays to rest the red herring of "safety."

Falconjet

Not when one of them has to be UNDER 60.

FJ

org1

[QUOTE=Falconjet;89395]Not when one of them has to be UNDER 60.

FJ[/QUO

That's politics, not safety. Regardless, it's discriminatory if they can do it in our airspace and we can't.

Andy

I stated FLYING 24 hours, not a 24 hour duty day. There is a difference. You also stated in your original post flying that length of time, not duty day.
Tell me what the regs state when you exceed a 24 hour duty day non-wartime or 26 hour duty day wartime. Does that require a waiver? Who's the waiver authority? I exceeded a 24 hour duty day many times back in the day - are you saying that it's no big deal to go past that limit?

Yep. The RC-135 Rivet Joint just cruises around in a holding pattern. Just like the EP-3 that downed the Chinese fighter; same mission as the Rivet Joint. http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/04/01/us.china.plane.03/
Note the crew size. Now figure out where the bunks would be. Both the EP-3 and Rivet Joint are jammed with electronic equipment; the RJ has a crew in excess of 30. Lotsa room to rack out on a long flight. No bunks; no spare room to sprawl out. Like you'd want to when you're within feet from violating an unfriendly's airspace (there's a reason why two navs and the latest nav gizmos are on the Rivet Joint).

Our deployment sorties did not permit us to stop at intermediate bases. The typical KOFF-OERY or KOFF-RODN was a double AR in excess of 15 hours. On a bad day, they'd be in excess of 18 hours. Yeah, I survived. No big thing. But even in my 30s, I felt like crap a couple of days after sorties of that length. Now that I'm pushing my 50s, there's no way I'd want to fly that stuff.

Andy

After some of my flights home, I would drive with the windows down. In the winter in Omaha, NE. And even then, I was lucky to make it home. But when you've been on the road for 6 weeks, you'll take additional risks to get home to your bed. Especially if the last 6 weeks were spent living in a tent with 7 of your closest buddies.

Busboy

So...It's not discrimination if they change it to 65?

Is it not discriminatory to not allow 12 year olds to drive a car? Maybe we should have a test for those 12 yr olds that want to try?

koz2000

Well lets look at the NZ and JAA regulations. Specifically NZ 61.253 Subpart F & JAR-FCL 1.265. Both ICAO, both allow a pilot to earn his/her ATPL at 21. The "age discrimination" thing is just an excuse which is politically correct these days. Have you heard one person who's in favor of changing the rule complain about the discrimination for our pilots age 21 & 22. Didn't think so.

If those who really believe it's age discrimination, then I say they shouldn't endorse any bill/ legislation that is not comprehensive against all age discrimination, not just what suits them.

Spanky189

Andy,
I obviously worked harder than your 'coushie' Rivet Joint gig. I flew 16 hours of Flying time in an 18 hour day in a Gulfstream. Pushing the rules, yes because that was the job to be done. Flew 14.1 hours with 2 pilots to Somalia because that was the job that had to be done. I've even had a 42 hour duty day from Pakistan to McGuire (not all flying). Alot more examples of pushing the rules 'to get the job done'. Yes, guys often exceed the 16, 24 hour duty periods. What planet are you living on?
If your so proud of those little holding patterns that you have done then go pet those 15 ribbons you have, at most.

I don't care if you retired as a General. Once you get past LTC, you don't know what the hell guys are doing to get the job done. So, go back to your Powerpoint briefing and stick to things you know.

Sorry to be negative but you have no idea what is happening in the real world.

Andy

Spanky, I never said that you didn't work harder than me. That's not what this thread was about. However, you also either had waivers approved to have a 42 hour duty period (I'd like to know who signed off on that waiver!) or you broke the regulations. I'd wager that it was the latter. It sounds like you pride yourself in breaking the rules to get the job done. But don't cry that you've had it tougher than everyone else just because you're willing to break the rules on a daily basis; they're there for a reason.

Since you're out there breaking regulations in the 'real world,' let me be the first to tell you that you're not the first one to do so. I've done the same to get the job done, as have my predecessors. Just don't screw up. Your bosses, who look the other way while you break regs, will hang you out to dry faster than a New York minute.

I now work in a joint DoD job that has nothing to do with operating aircraft; I've been out of flight ops for several years. I will not return to the military flying business; I won't even return to a 'blue' job. I now have security clearances that I never knew existed. I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what currently goes on in the squadron. But I have no need to know that information. In the end, it's SSDD.

Thanks for the chuckle about the Rivet Joint being a cushy job. I find it humorous how every swinging dick thinks that he's got the toughest job on the planet; no one before or after has worked as hard as him. I have no desire to hijack this thread further by engaging in a stupid 'my shlong is longer than yours' contest.

Oh, not that it matters, but I've got somewhere around 25 ribbons; they stopped meaning anything many years ago. But I've never done the job for little pieces of fabric.

Spanky, tell ya what. If you stop hijacking this thread, I'll state that you've got it MUCH tougher than I ever did; I led a golden career that you can only look on in envy.