gloopy

Lol yeah forgot to mention airline. My bad!

Avgwhitemale

FWIW....DL hasn't hired for three years. DL has a unique policy. New hires are on training pay from day one of INDOC through IOE. This can take several months depending on training capacity, etc. Training pay is around $1800 / month take home depending on taxes. GA requires us to pay state tax while on training pay (if you want more info on the GA state tax PM me...its complicated). DL will not provide a training hotel for equipment training. You will have a hotel for INDOC. I lived in a trailer near the zoo in MSP for my initial training. It is not exactly a glamorous lifestyle but it does acclimate you for your future in a NYC crash pad sitting SC. Once you have completed IOE successfully you transition to first year pay.

gloopy

The GA tax is refundable on next year's return though, right? I don't think a state can force you to pay double state tax to two states. As for the $1800 figure, that's less than half of what gross training pay is. I guess if you picked the most expensive everything off the health care menus and dumped a lot into your 401 the first year you could see that amount take home, but training pay is about 45K per year even though you will only be on it for 2-3 months. Then min reserve guarantee is about 60K per year for the rest of your first year.

I'm a big proponent of completely eliminating the entry level mini-B scale new hires face across the industry because I think it makes us all weaker in the long run. But as far as airlines go, DL is among the better ones WRT new hire pay.

Avgwhitemale

I am just reporting what we lived in 2010. I am sure it has gone up a bit. UAL's new hire pay beats ours now. In Jan they get a 8.5% bump placing them at the head of the pack. FX is waaaayyy out of our league. The fNWA folks were flabbergasted DAL wouldn't put us up in hotels for training. I was able to go deer hunting before my afternoon sims though.
I have several arilines covered in my reserve unit. DL is the only company that forces a new hire to cover billeting for their initial equipment training. That combined with our hat and double breasted jacket can break a man.

UPDRAFT

This is a good thread.

Maybe we can enhance it by adding info regarding medical benefits ( ie. when eligible and avg. cost per family, etc.)

SVA402

Only for newhires, right? They'll pay for any training for the rest of your career right?

Avgwhitemale

Yes..absolutely...new hires get most of the hazing. Once complete with IOE you begin first year pay. From thence forth you are afforded the opportunity to have a hotel for training.

NoHandHold

So far we have Delta & LUAL...cool!

Any other airlines?

Jet Blue? UsAirmerican? Spirit?

And can anybody speak on what the combined UniCal is going to be like as far as the questions in the first post goes?

tsquare

Just curious. How so?

gloopy

Basically by eliminating the massive first (and usually second) year pay differentials.

Narrowing the gap for vacation/sick as well would help too. Starting over in almost any circumstance would be a step backwards financially and QOL, but we really weaken our collecitive ability as a labor group when we paint ourselves into a corner like we do. If "starting over" meant 100+/hour, average sick time and 3 weeks vacation instead of 1 or 2 (but mostly the pay) with full insurance benefits immediately (hopefuly the CAL 6 months nonsense is on the way out for good regardless) then management wouldn't have nearly as big a number of, or as deeply dug in, automatic "save my number at all costs" vote, which everyone then has to pattern towards eventually (if not immediately).

Yet we preserve the "first year pay" paradigm, which makes us all far weaker in the long run, because by golly we had to do it so everyone else has to "pay their dues" etc. and we think we are being savvy in negotiating that pay for ourselves. To a very limited sense that may be true, but again we never consider the follow on long term effects. By preserving our current 1-2 year "new hire pay" stratedgy, we keep building our house on a soft sandy foundation in this highly and forever cyclical industry.

Every single time. We are never going to get an NSL, nor should we for reasons already discussed over many dusty horse skeletons. There are some people that (mis) manage their finances so that no matter how much they make they "can't afford a pay cut" at all and simply can't live even on 3rd year pay at a healthy legacy so you will always have a percentage of voters forever in the "yes" camp, easilly manipulated by management. But eliminating the first and second year mini B-ish scale (while the official definition is word smithed around it, that's still what it is in effect) is a great first year step. I would be willing to direct negotiating capital towards that as well; I know its not going to happen for free. Periods of gain are the time to do it anyway, usually meaning less gain at one's longevity in the first place. But long term if several airlines (especially ones that were hiring) had that in place, we would all be in a much stronger position. If you can't walk away even in theory and simply must say yes, you lost before you even start out. And yet that's how we negotiate.

First year pay is trending up niccely, although it appears to have stalled out. We'll see where the resistance level of resolve is really at come next round of negotiations in the industry. 60ish is a lot better than the 20's or 30's of not that long ago. But first year pay IMO should be 3rd year pay minus the small percentage pay step bump.