captjns

You are right about the discrimination issue. However the government is not charged with product design nor presentation. That's up to management.

The owners DO provide input as to how they envision the presentation of their product should be. And yes... $$$ are pretty much unlimited.

Gunga Galunga

I mean this as honest as possible and maybe I am mistaken but does Europe have the level of anti-discrimination laws we do? I rarely see their cabin crews fill some of the "4 G's" but then again, maybe I'm mistaken..

Gillegan

Oh please! The playing field is not level but it's not free fuel. It would be nice if people engaging in this debate would do a little research. A few reasons why most legacy airlines have difficulty competing with Emirates:

Costs: Regulatory Environment - they get away with a lot and are allowed to work their people to levels of productivity that would be unheard of in the west. Beware, this is probably the biggest threat to the workers in the west. As Emirates continues to grow, they set the bar on costs and other carriers are forced to try to match them. Unions are outlawed in much of the middle east giving their managements much more flexibility in controlling their costs. While flight crew are generally paid decently (though certainly not extravagantly) much of the rest of their workforces are not.

Taxes: being government owned, much of Emirates profit is returned to the government (after it is announced - the government takes its cut on the back end rather than the front end through endless user fees and the like though Emirates still needs to pay those fees at its destinations. The existence of Emirates serves a strategic purpose for Dubai and their welfare is treated accordingly. Their government is NOT their adversary and if they require it, you can be sure that the "skids are greased" for any infrastructure and the like that Emirates requires. Emirates has also benefitted from favorable financing rates for aircraft purchases that has not been available to U.S. and European carriers.

Management: (can't believe I'm writing this). While Emirates Flight Ops Management is fairly pedestrian, overall, the company is well managed. Their marketing and planning is second to none. When I was there, profitability of new routes was measured in weeks, not years. Not being hamstrung by inflexible unions, when the situation warrants, they can turn on a dime. Within 2 weeks of being granted authority to fly the Tasman routes between Australia and New Zealand, Emirates was operating them. To be fair, they also don't have the complexity of a huge domestic system to manage. It is a lot simpler to manage 120 destinations than it is the thousands that the U.S. carriers have.

Geographical Placement: draw an "8 hour ring" around the gulf and you encompass something like 2/3rds of the world population and as someone else pointed out, almost all of the world's emerging markets. Taking into account populations, economic growth and traffic flows, you would be hard pressed to find a better location.

The playing field within the Gulf is not level with Emirates not enjoying the subsidies and deep pockets that the other carriers do but they do have the advantage of a much more mature route structure and they seem to be holding their own. For a number of reasons, Emirates has been able to renew its fleet more frequently and to take advantage of improved efficiency while U.S. carriers have just been fighting for their survival. What Emirates doesn't get is free fuel. The UAE does not have any refineries so even fuel for Dubai is purchased on the open market. They hedge and speculate just like Southwest does.

I left Emirates after almost 16 years there and it has been a shock coming back to fly in the US. The experience as a passenger is anything but pleasant and it is easy to see why US carriers have such a difficult time competing with worldwide carriers (not just Emirates) on service. It has been an evolution wrought from the ill-conceived de-regulation of the industry and contributed to by all sides. If 25 years ago, you had gotten together government, management AND unions and said that their job was to screw up this industry, I don't think they could have done a much better job.

Skyone

Simply well said, Gillegan. Hope you're enjoying your "new" life.

BizPilot

Seventh freedom

The unofficial seventh freedom is a variation of the fifth freedom. It is the right to carry passengers or cargo between two foreign countries without any continuing service to one's own country.

acl65pilot

Emirates to add New York JFK-Milan nonstop
Ben Mutzabaugh, USA TODAY 4:14 p.m. EDT April 8, 2013
Emirates will add nonstop service between New York JFK and Milan's Malpensa Airport on Oct. 1.
Emirates will fly one daily round-trip flight between New York and Milan on 360-seat Boeing 777-300ER jets.
Emirates' nonstop New York-Milan service will be its first U.S.-Europe route since it dropped its New York-
Hamburg route in 2008.
Between Milan and New York, Emirates will face competition from three airlines: Alitalia, American and Delta.
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Emirates to fly Milan-New York route
(Mideast Airlines Target U.S.-Europe Routes - WSJ.com)
"Having carefully monitored traffic flows we have identified strong demand for both a direct connection and, importantly, for the Emirates product,"
Emirates president Tim Clark says in a release (Emirates set to launch Trans-Atlantic flight from Europe | Emirates United States).
Emirates thinks its "product" will stand out because it says it will be the only carrier to offer a true first-class experience on the Milan-JFK nonstops. The
other three airlines offer coach and business-class cabins but no "first class" on their nonstop flights between the cities.
On that point, Business Traveller (Emirates to operate transatlantic from Milan - Business Traveller) magazine writes that "Emirates
will, arguably, operate the best plane type (between the cities). By comparison Alitalia plies the route with an (Airbus) A330 while Delta and America both
operate versions of the (Boeing) 767."
BUSINESS TRAVELER: Emirates to operate transatlantic from Milan (http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...ntic-frommilan)
Emirates' Clarks says "this is where we see a clear opening for Emirates. We intend to capitalize on this opportunity, stimulating further demand and
encouraging additional traffic flow in both directions."
The 777-300ERs Emirates will use on the JFK-Milan route will have eight first-class "suites," 42 business-class seats with full lie-flat seats and 310 seats
in economy.
The route is a so-called "fifth-freedom" route enabled by the "open skies" agreement between the USA and EU along with special authorization by Italian
aviation regulators.
ARCHIVES: 'Fifth-freedom' routes let travelers experience exotic airline travel (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/trave...ts/2009-12-07-
foreigntravel07_ST_N.htm) (Dec. 2009)
Rules that govern such routes allow an airline to fly paying customers between two foreign cities as long as the flight also continues to or from its home
country.
In Emirates' case, its New York-Milan route will continue to and from its in main hub of Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. Coupled with its two nonstop
flights from Dubai, Emirates will now fly three daily round-trip flights between New York and Dubai.
ALSO ONLINE: New A380 concourse opens at Dubai airport (http://www.usatoday.com/picture-gall...oncourseopens-

ALSO ONLINE: A walk-through of Emirates' A380 (USATODAY Photo Gallery) (photos)
"This one-stop service has proved popular on other Emirates' routes, giving passengers the opportunity to experience a new destination or to break up
their journey on longer trips," Emirates says in its release.
Still, Emirates' move into the U.S.-Europe market could stir concern among Emirates' European rivals, many of whom already have a frosty view of the
fast-growing UAE carrier. The Journal writes that with trans-Atlantic routes among the biggest profit centers for European carriers, "Emirates' move could
(again) raise concerns that Gulf airlines will siphon off traffic" that currently connects over other European hubs.

The Journal says Emirates estimates that nearly half the passengers flying between Milan and North America connect via a European hub. Given that,
Emirates hopes to capture some of that market for its nonstop flight to New York JFK, where customers will be able to buy same-ticket connections on
North American flights operated by Emirates partner JetBlue.
TWITTER: You can follow me at twitter.com/TodayInTheSky (https://twitter.com/TodayInTheSky)


Another one:

Emirates set to launch Trans-Atlantic flight from Europe
8 April, 2013
Milan to New York Service to Launch in October
DUBAI, U.A.E., 8th April 2013: Connecting North America and mainland Europe, Emirates will launch a direct service between Milan and New York, the airline’s only trans-
Atlantic service, from 1st October 2013.
Linking Italy directly with America, the new route will provide an important connection between Continental Europe and the U.S., allowing Emirates to capitalise on the significant
traffic flow between these cities and giving both leisure and business travellers more choice and added convenience.
In addition to the existing passenger market between Milan and New York, Emirates has timed its flight schedule to ensure maximum connectivity for other key feeder markets.
Customers looking to fly on the airline’s award-winning product will be able to seamlessly connect from points all over the U.S., including the West Coast, taking advantage of
Emirates’ partnership with JetBlue, and across Europe, maximizing the airline’s frequent flyer partnership with easyJet.
“Operating a trans-Atlantic route has been on our agenda for some time. Having carefully monitored traffic flows we have identified strong demand for both a direct connection
and, importantly, for the Emirates product. The route is currently underserved, particularly with a strong premium product offering this is where we see a clear opening for
Emirates. We intend to capitalise on this opportunity, stimulating further demand and encouraging additional traffic flow in both directions,” said Tim Clark, President Emirates.
Operated by a Boeing 777-300ER, the flight will be an extension of one of Emirates’ existing three daily, Dubai to Milan flights. The service will originate in Dubai with passengers
then able to enjoy a stopover in Milan en-route to New York. On the return flight, passengers will have the option of stopping in Milan before continuing on to Dubai. This onestop
service has proved popular on other Emirates’ routes, giving passengers the opportunity to experience a new destination or to break their journey on longer trips.
The two cities share more than just their love of food, fashion and design, with New York being home to the largest Italian community in America. As well as offering excellent
connections for business travellers or people visiting friends and family, this new service is expected to be popular with leisure travellers who can take in the sights of multiple
cities with one convenient air ticket.
“This new route is the perfect marriage of two likeminded cities. Both destinations offer visitors a dynamic mix of culture and business and we are confident that this new service
will not only facilitate travel in both directions, but will also create a greater exchange of business, trade and tourism,” added Mr. Clark.
The new service, an extension of Emirates three daily flights to Milan, home to the Emirates-sponsored football club AC Milan, will boost Emirates’ flights to New York to three
Return to news index
daily.
“Since we launched services to New York in 2004, demand has grown steadily. We recently introduced a double daily A380 service on this route to meet the increased demand
and now is the right time to launch an additional flight, operating via Milan. Not only do we see existing potential from expatriate traffic but we are also acutely aware of the
business potential that can be tapped from the wider catchment areas, thanks to our convenient flight schedule,” added Mr. Clark.
Emirates will deploy its state-of-the-art Boeing 777-300ER on this route, offering eight seats in First Class, 42 seats in Business Class and 310 seats in Economy Class. The
aircraft will be equipped with Emirates’ award-winning ice system, offering over 1,400 channels of in-flight entertainment, as well gourmet chef-prepared meals.
ENAC (the Italian Civil Aviation Authority) has authorized the services between Milan and New York on an extra-bilateral basis and Emirates is confident that over the next 18
months an evaluation will demonstrate significant economic benefits for the Italian economy, exporters, tourism and airports.
“We greatly appreciate the support of ENAC and think it will have a very positive impact on the Italian air transport market and airports,” Mr Clark said.
In addition to passenger services, Emirates SkyCargo will offer a total of 38 tonnes of freight capacity between both cities each day.
Emirates flight EK205 will depart Dubai at 09:05hrs arriving in Milan at 13:50hrs, the flight will then depart Milan at 16:00hrs arriving in New York at 19:00hrs the same day. The
return journey on flight EK206 will depart New York at 22:20hrs arriving in Milan at 12:15hrs the following day before departing for Dubai at 14:00hrs, touching down in Dubai at
22:05.

This was not a AZ route. This was a deal between the UAE and Italy using Italy's Open Skies rights with the US for cash.

ShyGuy

When PIA does their seasonal ORD service, it stops in Barcelona before continuing to Lahore. PIA is allowed to sell only the Chicago to Barcelona portion as well. In fact, I saw a PIA R/T fare of $500 from ORD to BCN.

No complaints back then either.

Retire4X

I don't think anyone thought of this being a possibility. Using one country's Open Skies rights as a commodity. This could be a big problem if others try to monetize their possible routes. How were they able to secure the JFK slot?

Retire4X

Basically, manipulating/selling open skies rights to perform cabatoge by a different name.

nwaf16dude

Great move. Sell the route authorities to put your own "national" airline out of business. Alitalia was in trouble already, so you bring in a new competitor to one of your most important routes. Sure, this puts pressure on Delta too, but I think it's much worse for for Alitalia.