787 Crews
02-21-2013, 01:03 PM
#1
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787 Crews
Looks like the 787 will be down for a good long while. What's gonna happen to not only to the 787 crews status but the bid was predicated on more 787 staffing, LUAL 757's leaving the fleet, and future upgrades based on pilots going to 787 training? I see an adjustment bid coming out soon.
Feb 21 (Reuters) - United Continental Holdings said on Thursday it was taking Boeing Co's grounded 787 Dreamliner out of its flying plans through June 5, except for a Denver-to-Tokyo route scheduled for a tentative launch in May.
Meanwhile, Japanese investigators studying fuel leaks on the 787 found a problem with the paint on equipment controlling the fuel-tank valve, the Nikkei news service reported, citing people familiar with the details.
United's decision to mostly exclude the 787 from its schedule until June comes as other airlines that have 787s are setting schedules for coming months while still uncertain about when the plane will be able to resume service.
The Dreamliner fleet has been grounded for the past five weeks after batteries burned on two planes in January. Boeing is due to meet with the head of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration on Friday to present measures designed to prevent such failures, a source told Reuters, even though the root cause of the problem has not been determined.
United spokeswoman Christen David said in a statement on Thursday that the carrier's Denver to Tokyo Narita International route, originally set to start March 31, had been postponed to May 12. The launch would ultimately depend on a successful resolution of the safety incidents that have grounded the 787. Other service with the 787 won't resume until after June 5, David said.
"We are taking the 787 out of our schedule through June 5, except for Denver-Narita, which will tentatively launch on May 12," United's statement said.
Boeing was not immediately available for comment.
United's statement doesn't mean that the 787 won't be ready to fly again before June 5, said Carter Leake, an analyst at BB&T Capital Markets.
Rather, it means United won't put the jet into service before then. If the plane is available sooner, but United can't use it on its scheduled routes, Boeing likely would have to pay United compensation that Leake estimates at about $800,000 a month, based on lease rates.
"This does not tell you that Boeing's plane is grounded until June," he said. "It tells you that Boeing's costs to United could be as if it's grounded until June."
A "superbox" to contain the battery or some other fix "might come sooner, but United is not paying" to have the jet until after June 5, he addded.
In a similar move, Poland's national airline LOT said last week that it would not use the 787 before October and that it is seeking compensation from Boeing.
United is the only U.S. carrier currently operating the 787 and has six of the planes, worth $207 million apiece at list prices. Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways have most of the 50 jets delivered to airlines so far.
Meanwhile, Japan's Nikkei newspaper, citing sources, reported in its Feb. 22 morning edition that Transport Ministry investigators found deficiencies in how electrical-insulating paint was applied to a driving mechanism that opens and closes the 787's fuel-tank valve. The ministry also found foreign matter stuck on a switch on the mechanism.
The ministry is discussing the cause and measures to prevent recurrences with the U.S. FAA and Boeing, the Nikkei report added.
In addition to the battery problem, investigators have been looking into a case in which a Japan Airlines 787 leaked fuel while taxiing to the runway for take-off at Boston's Logan International Airport in January.
United says removing Boeing 787 from flight plans
4:03 PM ET, 02/21/2013 - Reuters
4:03 PM ET, 02/21/2013 - Reuters
Feb 21 (Reuters) - United Continental Holdings said on Thursday it was taking Boeing Co's grounded 787 Dreamliner out of its flying plans through June 5, except for a Denver-to-Tokyo route scheduled for a tentative launch in May.
Meanwhile, Japanese investigators studying fuel leaks on the 787 found a problem with the paint on equipment controlling the fuel-tank valve, the Nikkei news service reported, citing people familiar with the details.
United's decision to mostly exclude the 787 from its schedule until June comes as other airlines that have 787s are setting schedules for coming months while still uncertain about when the plane will be able to resume service.
The Dreamliner fleet has been grounded for the past five weeks after batteries burned on two planes in January. Boeing is due to meet with the head of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration on Friday to present measures designed to prevent such failures, a source told Reuters, even though the root cause of the problem has not been determined.
United spokeswoman Christen David said in a statement on Thursday that the carrier's Denver to Tokyo Narita International route, originally set to start March 31, had been postponed to May 12. The launch would ultimately depend on a successful resolution of the safety incidents that have grounded the 787. Other service with the 787 won't resume until after June 5, David said.
"We are taking the 787 out of our schedule through June 5, except for Denver-Narita, which will tentatively launch on May 12," United's statement said.
Boeing was not immediately available for comment.
United's statement doesn't mean that the 787 won't be ready to fly again before June 5, said Carter Leake, an analyst at BB&T Capital Markets.
Rather, it means United won't put the jet into service before then. If the plane is available sooner, but United can't use it on its scheduled routes, Boeing likely would have to pay United compensation that Leake estimates at about $800,000 a month, based on lease rates.
"This does not tell you that Boeing's plane is grounded until June," he said. "It tells you that Boeing's costs to United could be as if it's grounded until June."
A "superbox" to contain the battery or some other fix "might come sooner, but United is not paying" to have the jet until after June 5, he addded.
In a similar move, Poland's national airline LOT said last week that it would not use the 787 before October and that it is seeking compensation from Boeing.
United is the only U.S. carrier currently operating the 787 and has six of the planes, worth $207 million apiece at list prices. Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways have most of the 50 jets delivered to airlines so far.
Meanwhile, Japan's Nikkei newspaper, citing sources, reported in its Feb. 22 morning edition that Transport Ministry investigators found deficiencies in how electrical-insulating paint was applied to a driving mechanism that opens and closes the 787's fuel-tank valve. The ministry also found foreign matter stuck on a switch on the mechanism.
The ministry is discussing the cause and measures to prevent recurrences with the U.S. FAA and Boeing, the Nikkei report added.
In addition to the battery problem, investigators have been looking into a case in which a Japan Airlines 787 leaked fuel while taxiing to the runway for take-off at Boston's Logan International Airport in January.
02-21-2013, 01:43 PM
#2
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Isn't there a warrantee requirement in the purchase contract?
My warrantee story: I'm at DAL and was flying a brand spanking new 777LR on its first revenue flight. Going ATL-BOM, overhead FRA, the SAARU (adiru backup system) went out. Time between failure was supposed to be (something like) 80,000 hrs. We continued to BOM since we had no etops requirements. Boeing replaced the saaru and my understanding was they were on the hook for covering the lost revenue on the commercial flights missed.
That is my understanding, but I could be wrong.
My warrantee story: I'm at DAL and was flying a brand spanking new 777LR on its first revenue flight. Going ATL-BOM, overhead FRA, the SAARU (adiru backup system) went out. Time between failure was supposed to be (something like) 80,000 hrs. We continued to BOM since we had no etops requirements. Boeing replaced the saaru and my understanding was they were on the hook for covering the lost revenue on the commercial flights missed.
That is my understanding, but I could be wrong.
02-22-2013, 04:34 AM
#4
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Having seen a/c 903's Log Book, it had a huge sticker that was impossible to miss, it said "UNDER WARRANTY"......Dead Serious.
What blew my mind was there was front-back MEL stickers on the log-book as well. The line MX guy that we were talking to said that it arrived on it's delivery flight with those stickers ablazed!
So, I'm sure there's some kind of "Warranty Requirement" in the purchase contract, not to mention Boeing paying "other" expenses as this charade plays out (ie - Lost Revenue, the pay that flight crews are receiving during the grounding, ect....).
What blew my mind was there was front-back MEL stickers on the log-book as well. The line MX guy that we were talking to said that it arrived on it's delivery flight with those stickers ablazed!
So, I'm sure there's some kind of "Warranty Requirement" in the purchase contract, not to mention Boeing paying "other" expenses as this charade plays out (ie - Lost Revenue, the pay that flight crews are receiving during the grounding, ect....).
02-22-2013, 04:57 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,898
Not-so-good article about Japanese investigators finding a whole lot wrong with the 787s.
Paint job causing an oil leak, window cracks, brake issues, electrical issues.
Japan identifies some Boeing 787 problems - Yahoo! Finance
I'd say good job on outsourcing, Boeing, but doesn't final assembly and painting happen here in the US??
Paint job causing an oil leak, window cracks, brake issues, electrical issues.
Japan identifies some Boeing 787 problems - Yahoo! Finance
I'd say good job on outsourcing, Boeing, but doesn't final assembly and painting happen here in the US??
02-22-2013, 06:29 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
From what I've heard, all training on the 787 has been cancelled, and most previously qualified crews are going back to their old equipment. Not sure on the LCAL side what that means, but at LUAL it would be a PT/PC 5 day training event and an IOE with 3 landings.
Rumors are also out there that the 757 retirements are being slowed significantly
Rumors are also out there that the 757 retirements are being slowed significantly
02-22-2013, 06:33 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
FYI, the JAL 787 that caught on fire on the ramp in BOS is still there but the tail logo and the fuselage logo have been painted over to be as 'nondescript' as possible... Looks like a short term fix isn't all that likely.
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