DAL Pilot Help?!
11-20-2012, 09:34 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
Ok, just to clarify question 1.
You do not allow more than 8 hour un augmented domestic flying?
Can you point me into the direction where I'd find that in your PWA.
Here is something we have in our TA-
5-B-3 A Pilot shall not be assigned or reassigned to more than eight (8) hours Flight Time during any unaugmented Duty Period, except that a Pilot may be assigned or reassigned to up to nine (9) hours Flight Time during an unaugmented Duty Period that contains two (2) or more Flying Flight Segments, that does not contain ANF, and that reports between 0500 and 1959 (using the time frame of reference in effect for the Duty Period in accordance with Section 5-E-1).
I asked the question today to my "union" if a 2 man crew could fly a 2 segment day.. 5:15, sit and then 3:15. Total Duty time of 12 hours and total flight time of 8:30.
Answer-
Yes.
When I asked how this happened, I was told that the Union couldn't "fight" scientific evidence. That FAR117 allows it.
So I'm wondering- you guys negotiated a new PWA after part 117 was published. How did you work it?
Thanks again for your time (all who have been answering). We've got an uphill battle on our hands at UCAL~
Motch
You do not allow more than 8 hour un augmented domestic flying?
Can you point me into the direction where I'd find that in your PWA.
Here is something we have in our TA-
5-B-3 A Pilot shall not be assigned or reassigned to more than eight (8) hours Flight Time during any unaugmented Duty Period, except that a Pilot may be assigned or reassigned to up to nine (9) hours Flight Time during an unaugmented Duty Period that contains two (2) or more Flying Flight Segments, that does not contain ANF, and that reports between 0500 and 1959 (using the time frame of reference in effect for the Duty Period in accordance with Section 5-E-1).
I asked the question today to my "union" if a 2 man crew could fly a 2 segment day.. 5:15, sit and then 3:15. Total Duty time of 12 hours and total flight time of 8:30.
Answer-
Yes.
When I asked how this happened, I was told that the Union couldn't "fight" scientific evidence. That FAR117 allows it.
So I'm wondering- you guys negotiated a new PWA after part 117 was published. How did you work it?
Thanks again for your time (all who have been answering). We've got an uphill battle on our hands at UCAL~
Motch
11-21-2012, 04:18 AM
#12
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
Ok.. so, still confused.
Does that mean that DAL COULD fly 2 man crew; JFK-ATL sit 2 hours and then ATL-LAX?
Not sure of the individual flight times for both legs, but I have to imagine it would be over 8 hours but not more than 9?
Thanks
Motch
Does that mean that DAL COULD fly 2 man crew; JFK-ATL sit 2 hours and then ATL-LAX?
Not sure of the individual flight times for both legs, but I have to imagine it would be over 8 hours but not more than 9?
Thanks
Motch
11-21-2012, 08:19 AM
#14
Senior by choice
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 427
^ Ok, thanks~
So it can happen, but if it does, it requires 12 hours of rest... and this is coming from a short call reserve who has a 12 hour duty period.
Got it.
Next questions.
I'm looking at your PWA and can't find the Flight Period for anything other than International.
SO.. Here are my 3 questions.
1) Can a domestic crew be scheduled for a 8:30 Flight Duty Period within a 11-12 Duty Day?
2) You guys fly some of the same trips we do.. NYC (JFK vs. EWR) to LHR, AMS, DUB, - are they all crewed with 3?
3) What do those trips pay? Our LHR's pay in the high 15's to low 16's (with 3 man crew on the 75) the AMS pays 16:30 with a 2-3 man crew.. and the DUB pays 14:45 with 2 man crew.
Thanks
Motch
So it can happen, but if it does, it requires 12 hours of rest... and this is coming from a short call reserve who has a 12 hour duty period.
Got it.
Next questions.
I'm looking at your PWA and can't find the Flight Period for anything other than International.
SO.. Here are my 3 questions.
1) Can a domestic crew be scheduled for a 8:30 Flight Duty Period within a 11-12 Duty Day?
2) You guys fly some of the same trips we do.. NYC (JFK vs. EWR) to LHR, AMS, DUB, - are they all crewed with 3?
3) What do those trips pay? Our LHR's pay in the high 15's to low 16's (with 3 man crew on the 75) the AMS pays 16:30 with a 2-3 man crew.. and the DUB pays 14:45 with 2 man crew.
Thanks
Motch
11-21-2012, 08:48 AM
#15
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I see no issue there. In the examples they are called and released from the SC assignment and given another assignment whether it be a trip or another SC assignment. In all 3 cases, the assignment was 10 hours after the phone call. And your question re: drive to the airport is a straw man argument.. That has NEVER been considered in any of OUR contracts (I think it should in some cases.. i.e. a 0700 show in NY... but that is a different discussion)
11-21-2012, 09:28 AM
#16
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I realize that more than 8 hours is illegal now. But I believe that as of Dec 21, 2013 the rules come into effect.
Again, I have shown what is in the TA.. does DAL have anything like this and will Delta be doing this?
Thanks
Again, I have shown what is in the TA.. does DAL have anything like this and will Delta be doing this?
Thanks
11-21-2012, 11:20 AM
#17
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Not unless it is LOA'd with the FTDT LOA that is coming down the pipeline.
11-21-2012, 12:30 PM
#18
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,762
Much in the FTDT regs is close to what's in our contract (limits to duty time based on report time, etc) so I don't expect our contract will change much there - but the max hours of flying will have to be in the LOA to change.
11-21-2012, 01:19 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 758
What Clamp is saying is that our latest contract did not address anything in the new Flight Time and Duty Regs that are coming in late 2013 or early 2014. That will have to be addressed in a LOA (Letter of agreement) that we're either working on, or will be working on soon.
Much in the FTDT regs is close to what's in our contract (limits to duty time based on report time, etc) so I don't expect our contract will change much there - but the max hours of flying will have to be in the LOA to change.
Much in the FTDT regs is close to what's in our contract (limits to duty time based on report time, etc) so I don't expect our contract will change much there - but the max hours of flying will have to be in the LOA to change.
11-21-2012, 02:20 PM
#20
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,762
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