DL/NW relative seniority moving forward

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07-23-2012, 01:08 PM

#71

Bucking Bar

Can't abide NAI

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Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler

Posts: 12,037

Quote:

Originally Posted by R57 relay

Shoot, that the ALPA merger policy, right?

ALPA's merger policy is little more than a a process and paying for a meeting room at this point.

07-23-2012, 01:19 PM

#72

Bucking Bar

Can't abide NAI

Joined APC: Jun 2007

Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler

Posts: 12,037

Quote:

Originally Posted by R57 relay

Really? So every airline stagnates or expands on what? It's greatness? At my airline I've seen 2 year captains and 22 year captains. How long is it taking at DL? How about SW? What if you merge with a company that was on a huge expansion tear that could not be sustained, would you want your seniority to keep their artificial, unsustainable movement going? Mighty generous of you.

Nice theory, doesn't always work.

Going where, exactly? After a merger most airlines shrink. Many fail.

US Air / America West defied most people's expectations.

07-23-2012, 01:21 PM

#73

johnso29

Moderator

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Position: B757/767

Posts: 13,088

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Ok, barely line holder who would prefer reserve to the alternative (or whatever your version of reality is, A320/737 plug?).

Seven years will get you a lot more then that. You would easily hold a line on the 757/767 in NYC. Be realistic Bar. It's true ATL has become senior, but what do you expect when it presents some of the best opportunity? I think it's fair to say that both airlines brought value. Delta was going for a massive European expansion, & Europe fell off a cliff. Without the Asia operation NWA brought, where would you be now? Where would NWA be without the better hubs Delta brought?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

I suggest a second mulligan. I've been here 5.5 years and that is still completely false.

Agreed. Seven years would get me a great spot on several fleets.

07-23-2012, 01:22 PM

#74

cactiboss

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Posts: 3,240

And this is exactly why George Nicolau said you cannot compare different sli's at different companies. Take the example of HA's 330 captains, those guys are junior at their airline because inter island is more senior and the old guys are scared of the airbus. So an arbitrator would have to take that into account. The deal at airways is the same way, can't be compared to DAL or a simple comparative position for many reasons. The bottom line is we agreed to let a 3rd party decide, and someone didn't live up to their bargain with disastrous consequences.

07-23-2012, 01:26 PM

#75

R57 relay

Gets Weekends Off

Thread Starter

Joined APC: Nov 2011

Position: A320 Capt

Posts: 5,299

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Going where, exactly? After a merger most airlines shrink. Many fail.

US Air / America West defied most people's expectations.

Their upward seniority movement. Would you want yours to slow or stop so theirs could keep up the pace at the time of the merger, even if it was unsustainable?

07-23-2012, 03:06 PM

#76

Check Essential

Works Every Weekend

Joined APC: Dec 2007

Position: 737 ATL

Posts: 3,506

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

ALPA's merger policy is little more than a a process and paying for a meeting room at this point.

Agreed. The "policy" is nothing but a toothless set of platitudes these days.

Last edited by Check Essential; 07-23-2012 at 03:46 PM.

07-23-2012, 03:46 PM

#77

Sink r8

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Posts: 5,113

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Essential

Agreed. The "policy" is nothing but a toothless set of platitudes these days.

...which is probably the way we want it. You want a set merger policy, without knowing first who you'll merge with? Think about what's imporatnt in the meregr policy. It's not setting the details of the outcome, but in making sure the outcome is a single group.

ALPA needs a loose policy that makes sure there is a SLI (but without spelling out how it needs to be done) OR it wants to get in the business of setting seniority among pilots at different airlines, which pre-supposes some negotiated NSL/ALPASL. In which case SLI's wouldn't apply to us.

07-23-2012, 03:58 PM

#78

cactiboss

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Posts: 3,240

Quote:

Originally Posted by R57 relay

Their upward seniority movement. Would you want yours to slow or stop so theirs could keep up the pace at the time of the merger, even if it was unsustainable?

You must be talking about another merger because the nicolau award does not do that.

07-23-2012, 04:26 PM

#79

R57 relay

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Thread Starter

Joined APC: Nov 2011

Position: A320 Capt

Posts: 5,299

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactiboss

You must be talking about another merger because the nicolau award does not do that.

Actually, had it been in place it would have done just that. It's what you have been complaining about, that your system has been downsized, but under Nic you wouldn't have lost your seat, right?

The east has 175 less 737 and bigger captains now than it did the month the merger was announced, yet several hundred guys have upgraded(re-upgraded). Had the Nic been in place, you and many west guys would have taken some of those upgrades and would have continued your move up, taking it away from the east.

That 175 less captains has been offset some by additional A330 F/Os, but a 757 capt and A330 F/O are not the same.

07-23-2012, 04:39 PM

#80

cactiboss

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Posts: 3,240

Quote:

Originally Posted by R57 relay

some of those upgrades

This is key, you ignore the aircraft we bring and you ignore the 1600 pilots that brought no job to this merger, and you certainly ignore that the west has taken the brunt of the pain for being the higher cost group.