Superpilot92

Bar lets be fair, the merger didn't cause the growth plans to stop, the tanking housing market, pig flu, Record high oil, economy on free fall, etc caused everything to come to a screeching halt. If anything the merger kept delta from over expanding going into a horrendous resession we're still in 5 years later. Jmho

acl65pilot

Guess what? None of this matters. It's over done, arbitrated and solidified as a successful merger. Learn from it but be ready for the next one with it's nuances.

Some faired better many worse. That is the way of mergers.

Let's all resolve to make the next one successful. (if we do in fact take employees that is)

R57 relay

Cacti, you notice how all these other guys are talking about what happened when they merged and how they move forward. I know you like to focus on 2007 and not look forward, but try.

Most gains in relative position are gone. The crossover point was soon after the list came out with the bottom majority of AWA guys gaining in relative position very quickly. So an AWA pilot gets better relative position at a bigger airline, with more equipment and route opportunities. The leader of AOL would have about a 15% point immediate increase in relative position if we implemented the Nic today.

Here are the numbers for the only west guy I have:

1/1/10-52.9% on Nic 58.5% on West stand alone
1/1/15-45.7% on Nic 53.7% on West stand alone
1/1/20-24.8% on Nic 39.0% on West stand alone
1/1/25- 9.3% on Nic 23.0% on West stand alone
retirement 4.7% on Nic 13.7% on West stand alone

That said, a forced march to DOH is a worse shift in relative position for west pilots in the opposite direction. They do make up for it because of east attrition, but not until about 2020 for the guy above. I understand the opposition to changing an arbitrated award to DOH, but that doesn't mean that I think Nicolau got it right.

For the DL/NW guys thanks for the input. I see your merger as a success because I hear both sides complaining about it. One big difference with you guys is that your management had the money to throw at it and was willing to do so.

Someone said "where we were smarter". Well, you had a pretty good example of how not to do it.

fartboxflyer

Some will win, some will lose, some are born to sing the blues.

Sink r8

Nu,

Actually, when you'r describing ER categories, I think you're more describing what transpired in DTW than in NYC, where the flying was pure, 100%, honest-to-goodness international flying. The worst that might happen to us pre-merger was the outrage of going to Malaga or Edinburgh on a 757.

As far as overstaffing, my impression is that the arbitration hearings demonstrated clearly that NW was overstaffed under its' own model. And this pmDAL pilot believes the rumors that the decision to can the 747 classics was made prior to the merger.

In fact, I appreciate the fact you're referring to pie-in-the sky plans, because that's exactly how I view the differences between us when discussing the SLI, especially in the context of attrition and advancement.

Which is exactly the point I would make to RB57 and cactiboss. You can argue this all day, and be intimately convinced you're right, and it still won't matter. There isn't a Delta guy that will agree that he won in the merger, no matter where he started.

Those gpilot groups would do much better if they could get past the anger and denial phases: bless their hearts, for they've done been merged. If the East side could be like both DAL groups, and live by their binding agreements, they'd all be much further ahead.

R57 relay

Thank you Reverend. Pretty easy to say when it's not your career.

I should have made it clear that I was asking looking forward to a possible AA merger and what can be different, not just back. I was trying to see if what I thought was reasonable turned out that way at DL. Looks like you achieved a better integration at DL and I'd like to do the same moving forward.

I agree that we should have stuck with the arbitrated award, I don't see anyway around it. But, had you received what you felt was a bad award and had a transition agreement that allowed you options, would you have taken them?

Oh yeah, you were the "smarter than" guy. Geeze.

Fly782

You guys do realize that any merger with AA will be with the NIC award correct? There have been plenty of mergers and obviously 1 that has effected his career. You guys need to move on and deal with it. People ask me if I would every fly for US Airways and I say NO. Why? Because of your rediculous brethren, not DP. Accept your binding arbitrated list already, life might actually get better over there. It is sad to watch your guys' desperation.

R57 relay

Did you actually read the rest of the posts? I have assumed that we would go into a AA merger with the Nic, but I don't know. Doug Parker, you know the guy running things over here, has said their attorneys think it could be a three way. Who knows for sure, but that is not what this is about. I didn't ask you for your opinions and I don't give a rat's rear how you feel about our situation. I was looking for what happened at DL. Don't like it, don't read it.

rediculous? Did you mean ridiculous, or do you use the urban dictionary?

Fly782

Nice, I made a typo

Clearly you do care otherwise you wouldnt be responding, you are just scared again because NIC will be used and this time against AA who will really make sure you guys get a fair integration why would DP merger 3 lists when he can use 2 already ESTABLISHED ( not in your eyes) lists? Keep dreaming, you guys may be able to hold on just a little longer.

R57 relay

I'm not sacred at all about the Nic. I wasn't hurt that badly by it and I accepted it a long time ago. I have never seen a realistic way around it. I personally would have been better off had we accepted it and moved on IF we could have gotten a decent contract. That part I doubt. If the offer remained the Kirby proposal I wouldn't have voted for it and the separate ops provision of our TA would have kept us apart just as we are, or possibly put pressure on Parker to sweeten the pot.

I don't care about your opinion, but the arrogance gets to me. Obviously you don't work here, but you know it all. Tell me who you work for and I can tell you all about your situation. Again I was looking for history from those that have lived it, not editorials.

Sorry about the spelling jab, I'm not one to talk on that front. Just peeved me.