From MGT: Yes voters throwing away leverage
06-27-2012, 10:22 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6
From MGT: Yes voters throwing away leverage
One of the best management tactics to get something in negotiations, is to get the other side thinking you’re giving them something you already intend to, and use it to make gains elsewhere.
We’ve had meetings in the past few weeks in regards to the Delta TA and how we will be affected either way. Discussions usually revolved around a Yes result, but occasionally the topic of what will happen if a No vote prevails. Most of us believe the large jet giveaway will remain and only a few changes will be made elsewhere. That said, we have discussed what would happen if the Delta pilots hold firm on their 255 large jet cap.
In either scenario, DCI as a whole, will be shrinking. As I have stated before, we will not be able to staff our current fleet levels for the impending attrition and the new ATP hiring minimums. I don’t know how else to put it that the new hiring minimums are going to hit us hard. Without raising our pilot compensation levels substantially, we will not be able to attract enough pilots in the coming years to replace our attrition. Delta could pay us more, but that won’t happen either.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that a majority of you have not grasped on to this situation, even from the No voters. It’s your choice, but at least give it a good fight.
We’ve had meetings in the past few weeks in regards to the Delta TA and how we will be affected either way. Discussions usually revolved around a Yes result, but occasionally the topic of what will happen if a No vote prevails. Most of us believe the large jet giveaway will remain and only a few changes will be made elsewhere. That said, we have discussed what would happen if the Delta pilots hold firm on their 255 large jet cap.
In either scenario, DCI as a whole, will be shrinking. As I have stated before, we will not be able to staff our current fleet levels for the impending attrition and the new ATP hiring minimums. I don’t know how else to put it that the new hiring minimums are going to hit us hard. Without raising our pilot compensation levels substantially, we will not be able to attract enough pilots in the coming years to replace our attrition. Delta could pay us more, but that won’t happen either.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that a majority of you have not grasped on to this situation, even from the No voters. It’s your choice, but at least give it a good fight.
06-27-2012, 10:35 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 7ERB, no M88, no 7ER, no A320, NEXT!
Posts: 397
One of the best management tactics to get something in negotiations, is to get the other side thinking you’re giving them something you already intend to, and use it to make gains elsewhere.
We’ve had meetings in the past few weeks in regards to the Delta TA and how we will be affected either way. Discussions usually revolved around a Yes result, but occasionally the topic of what will happen if a No vote prevails. Most of us believe the large jet giveaway will remain and only a few changes will be made elsewhere. That said, we have discussed what would happen if the Delta pilots hold firm on their 255 large jet cap.
In either scenario, DCI as a whole, will be shrinking. As I have stated before, we will not be able to staff our current fleet levels for the impending attrition and the new ATP hiring minimums. I don’t know how else to put it that the new hiring minimums are going to hit us hard. Without raising our pilot compensation levels substantially, we will not be able to attract enough pilots in the coming years to replace our attrition. Delta could pay us more, but that won’t happen either.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that a majority of you have not grasped on to this situation, even from the No voters. It’s your choice, but at least give it a good fight.
We’ve had meetings in the past few weeks in regards to the Delta TA and how we will be affected either way. Discussions usually revolved around a Yes result, but occasionally the topic of what will happen if a No vote prevails. Most of us believe the large jet giveaway will remain and only a few changes will be made elsewhere. That said, we have discussed what would happen if the Delta pilots hold firm on their 255 large jet cap.
In either scenario, DCI as a whole, will be shrinking. As I have stated before, we will not be able to staff our current fleet levels for the impending attrition and the new ATP hiring minimums. I don’t know how else to put it that the new hiring minimums are going to hit us hard. Without raising our pilot compensation levels substantially, we will not be able to attract enough pilots in the coming years to replace our attrition. Delta could pay us more, but that won’t happen either.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that a majority of you have not grasped on to this situation, even from the No voters. It’s your choice, but at least give it a good fight.
So you would have us believe you are a member of management?
06-27-2012, 10:45 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 520
$473 million in savings alone when 50 seaters go bye bye... U guys are paying for ur own raises. Pathetic
06-27-2012, 12:55 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
Posts: 1,508
Delta Air Lines could save $473M with new pilot contract - Memphis Business Journal
"Delta Air Lines Inc. could save $473 million in engine maintenance, Bombardier CRJ200 ownership and Delta Connection contract costs if its pilots ratify a new collective bargaining agreement they will vote on this month, Aviation Week reported."
"Delta Air Lines Inc. could save $473 million in engine maintenance, Bombardier CRJ200 ownership and Delta Connection contract costs if its pilots ratify a new collective bargaining agreement they will vote on this month, Aviation Week reported."
06-27-2012, 02:26 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
06-28-2012, 11:44 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6
Superdad,
I've stated in a previous thread who I was, to an extent, but I'm not going into any more details. You can choose to believe me or not. What I am dumbfounded by is the how you still don't get that we are going to have to shrink at DCI and the rest of the regionals due to the new hiring minimums.
If you can't understand how the ATP hiring minimums affect us, then that explains why you think you need to allow more 76-seat jets to park 50-seat jets. We are shrinking either way, but if you would rather have 325 70+ seat jets and 125 50-seat jets instead of 255 70+ seat jets and 195 50 seat jets, have at it.
I was just trying to throw a bone your way from the the other side. Not all of us think this level of outsourcing is a good thing. We just can't openly talk about. Hence the reason why I'm not going to pull a Greg Smith here.
I've stated in a previous thread who I was, to an extent, but I'm not going into any more details. You can choose to believe me or not. What I am dumbfounded by is the how you still don't get that we are going to have to shrink at DCI and the rest of the regionals due to the new hiring minimums.
If you can't understand how the ATP hiring minimums affect us, then that explains why you think you need to allow more 76-seat jets to park 50-seat jets. We are shrinking either way, but if you would rather have 325 70+ seat jets and 125 50-seat jets instead of 255 70+ seat jets and 195 50 seat jets, have at it.
I was just trying to throw a bone your way from the the other side. Not all of us think this level of outsourcing is a good thing. We just can't openly talk about. Hence the reason why I'm not going to pull a Greg Smith here.
06-29-2012, 03:43 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
One of the best management tactics to get something in negotiations, is to get the other side thinking you’re giving them something you already intend to, and use it to make gains elsewhere.
We’ve had meetings in the past few weeks in regards to the Delta TA and how we will be affected either way. Discussions usually revolved around a Yes result, but occasionally the topic of what will happen if a No vote prevails. Most of us believe the large jet giveaway will remain and only a few changes will be made elsewhere. That said, we have discussed what would happen if the Delta pilots hold firm on their 255 large jet cap.
In either scenario, DCI as a whole, will be shrinking. As I have stated before, we will not be able to staff our current fleet levels for the impending attrition and the new ATP hiring minimums. I don’t know how else to put it that the new hiring minimums are going to hit us hard. Without raising our pilot compensation levels substantially, we will not be able to attract enough pilots in the coming years to replace our attrition. Delta could pay us more, but that won’t happen either.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that a majority of you have not grasped on to this situation, even from the No voters. It’s your choice, but at least give it a good fight.
We’ve had meetings in the past few weeks in regards to the Delta TA and how we will be affected either way. Discussions usually revolved around a Yes result, but occasionally the topic of what will happen if a No vote prevails. Most of us believe the large jet giveaway will remain and only a few changes will be made elsewhere. That said, we have discussed what would happen if the Delta pilots hold firm on their 255 large jet cap.
In either scenario, DCI as a whole, will be shrinking. As I have stated before, we will not be able to staff our current fleet levels for the impending attrition and the new ATP hiring minimums. I don’t know how else to put it that the new hiring minimums are going to hit us hard. Without raising our pilot compensation levels substantially, we will not be able to attract enough pilots in the coming years to replace our attrition. Delta could pay us more, but that won’t happen either.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that a majority of you have not grasped on to this situation, even from the No voters. It’s your choice, but at least give it a good fight.
06-29-2012, 06:25 AM
#8
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6
NWA,
The pay at the regionals would have to come up substantially to staff at our current levels, for the next decade. The ATP minimums haven't even gone into full effect and those of us that are hiring, have to get a good percent of new hires from other shrinking regionals. Once pilots start leaving the regionals to the majors and the ATP minimums come into full effect, you will see the contraction at the regional level due to lack of pilots.
The pilot shortage you allude to is only due to our low compensation at the regionals. We will not be raising it to what is needed to cover the impending attrition. Your vote is over, so you'll have to live with your results either way. If you vote it in, you will realize your lost leverage in about 2-3 years.
The pay at the regionals would have to come up substantially to staff at our current levels, for the next decade. The ATP minimums haven't even gone into full effect and those of us that are hiring, have to get a good percent of new hires from other shrinking regionals. Once pilots start leaving the regionals to the majors and the ATP minimums come into full effect, you will see the contraction at the regional level due to lack of pilots.
The pilot shortage you allude to is only due to our low compensation at the regionals. We will not be raising it to what is needed to cover the impending attrition. Your vote is over, so you'll have to live with your results either way. If you vote it in, you will realize your lost leverage in about 2-3 years.
06-29-2012, 06:30 AM
#9
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
Otherwise **** off!
06-29-2012, 06:31 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
NWA,
The pay at the regionals would have to come up substantially to staff at our current levels, for the next decade. The ATP minimums haven't even gone into full effect and those of us that are hiring, have to get a good percent of new hires from other shrinking regionals. Once pilots start leaving the regionals to the majors and the ATP minimums come into full effect, you will see the contraction at the regional level due to lack of pilots.
The pilot shortage you allude to is only due to our low compensation at the regionals. We will not be raising it to what is needed to cover the impending attrition. Your vote is over, so you'll have to live with your results either way. If you vote it in, you will realize your lost leverage in about 2-3 years.
The pay at the regionals would have to come up substantially to staff at our current levels, for the next decade. The ATP minimums haven't even gone into full effect and those of us that are hiring, have to get a good percent of new hires from other shrinking regionals. Once pilots start leaving the regionals to the majors and the ATP minimums come into full effect, you will see the contraction at the regional level due to lack of pilots.
The pilot shortage you allude to is only due to our low compensation at the regionals. We will not be raising it to what is needed to cover the impending attrition. Your vote is over, so you'll have to live with your results either way. If you vote it in, you will realize your lost leverage in about 2-3 years.
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