alfaromeo

As best as I can tell it's 47.5. Your turn.

georgetg

Bill, against my own better judgement, I will attempt to answer your post.

• At issue is not whether or not there are cuts in Transatlantic JV flying to Europe. (there are)
• At issue is which pilot group is shouldering the majority of the Transatlantic JV flying cuts. (it's us, Delta pilots)

I've spoken about this very subject with Tim O'Malley. He is the guy who signed MOU16, the agreement that created the new compliance period from April 2011 to March 2014.
He is saying Delta has tried but can't get AFKLM to reduce flying more. As a result Delta is making the lion's share of the cuts and using the AFKLM network in Europe to cover the loss of direct Transatlantic service to some European cities. On our side of the Atlantic AFKLM/AZ have only cut 3-4 cities.

Anyone in JFK on the ER is pretty aware of this loss of destinations and even some guys in ATL have started to notice...

Delta has until March 2015 to fix this situation.
In the meantime we will shoulder our share of the cuts, add some of AFKLM/AZ's share of the cuts and like it.

An because we fly generally smaller jets, we will take a proportionally larger hit on block-hours.

That's the big picture...It's real and it is happening now.

Cheers
George

Bill Lumberg

George,

Thanks so much for considering to respond to my humble post..... How many of the DL JFK cuts affect AF/KL/AZ? Yes, the whole JV between our groups throws money into a big pot, but are they affected if we can't fill a 757 from JFK to ARN in the Winter? We added a bunch of 757s across the Atlantic because CAL was doing it out of EWR. Even they are cutting back, taking 757s off of those routes, adding UAL 767-300s where they can, or just chopping the routes like we are (JFK to FCO and EWR to FCO will both be cut in the Fall/Winter). Does it make sense to run a 757 on a trans Atlantic route when oil is high and the Eurozone crisis is happening, during slow season too?

Delta decided to shift 757s out of that market, it might not work on certain routes (they kept Valencia, Malaga, Shannon, and Rekyavik, and PIT--CDG for the Summer), but on most they have determined it to not work. The JFK 7ER guys were given a taste of variety, only to be out done by economics of that plane. Could we throw excess 7ERs onto those markets, like ARN, CPH, etc for the Winter? And take them off of better producing runs to Asia or South America? I guess you would want that... Some of the ex TWA 757ERs are actually in the process of being moved to Asia to try to get higher revenue passengers for the better 1st class product on those particular 757s.

So, to recap, you want the smaller 757s to continue to lose money, even if they are not the correct plane for the route. That route may just not make economic sense in the Winter. Delta used to reduce 767ER schedules by huge amounts each Winter from ATL and JFK, giving crews long layovers because service was reduced. But, you don't want to see that. That's what I see. Just like you want to keep older 50 seat RJs on money losing routes, even though a 70 seater would make more money for the airline, and maybe help your profit sharing check. Maybe you want A319s on every DCI route now, regardless of the extra cost? Oh-kay. Thanks so much for indulging me with your response...

Carl Spackler

I think you got a little something on your nose there Bill.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Get used to this response. When January 2015 rolls around and it's time for Delta to "implement its plan" to bring the RJ block hour ratios in balance, we'll here something very similar from Mr. O'Malley.

Carl

acl65pilot

You many also see a new JV partner and a new measurement period start. Not saying it "will" happen, just saying I would not be surprised at all. With the new language in the TA our share of the total JV has a floor of 37.5%

georgetg

I got 47.29% by March 31, 2012, with numbers from Sam and Desi (Codeshare commitee)

Since March 31 2012 Delta has cut more European destinations:

ATL Paris: cut one of three daily flights
ATL Barcelona: cut
ATL Milan: cut
JFK Prague: cut
JFK Rome: cut
JFK Athens cut

In the same time, AF reduced twice daily service from Paris to Dulles to one A380...and KLM cancelled MIA Amsterdam.

It's not really rocket science to see how we would be below the 47.x% at this point unless AFKLM/AZ makes massive cuts to match. None have been announced.

Cheers
George

Carl Spackler

Great. I feel much better.

Carl

georgetg

Not once have I advocated for flying aircraft into markets, just because.
I'll say it again: obviously flying across the Atlantic is reduced.

Delta pilots are shouldering more cuts than AFKLM/AZ pilots.

I don't think that's right.

Apparently you're fine with that.

Cheers
George

georgetg

It will be that,

Increase to 52.5 for the last 18 months

1.P.4. Note 2

or massive cuts by AFKLM/AZ

Cheers
George