What if a no vote means less?
06-15-2012, 02:30 PM
#11
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Millionaire's and Billionaire's walking away from their contracts (and their investments) had absolutely nothing to do with the pilot's contract.
Carl
06-15-2012, 02:33 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
This is a real quick reply (dangerous) so I reserve the right to edit errors later after doing some additional checking.
Yes. The company still has to maintain 315 slots (use or lose) in NRT, otherwise they can't codeshare across the Pacific. They have to negotiate to go to Haneda.
This is where the new JV language protects us shold Delta try to go that route. Delta still has to maintain 315 slots even if JAL were added. The routes may change (as they can now) but Delta pilot flown slots won't.
Fewer than we could lose now because of the additional JV protection. This TA will not accelerate displacements, it will help prevent them by protecting both top and bottom end scope. We are overstaffed now. Even though the most common call that ALPA's getting right now is about early retirement and the worry it won't get down to that individual's seniority, the efficiencies in our contract would show a net reduction of around 100 jobs. Any retirements over that number will mean a net increase in seniority for remaining pilots. Also, in order to access 76 seat jets, Delta has to buy 88 B717. Those plus 737-900ER and MD-90 deliveries should mean fleet growth.
They have greater access now. This TA tightens the requirement for management to access your records, lengthens the requirement for them to require a Doctor's note and codifies when verification is required. They can no longer monitor as they are currently doing. This is a clear, big win that produces a far better result than the grievance.
All the "negative" staffing changes result in a need for 300 less pilots. All the positive staffing changes add back in about 175-200 (depending on block hours) for a net reduction of 100-125.
19.7% in the first 30 months of a new contract are solid numbers. Everybody wants them higher but they are what are achievable.
The 737-900ER is the mainline "replacement" aircraft. It pays more than the A320 and less than the B757. There is no current plan to park MD-88's. The 717 is replacing DCI CRJ flying. While it doesn't guarantee growth, it guarantees that Delta pilots will be flying a higher percentage of Delta passengers.
That's subjective, but exchanging 70 additional 76 seaters for a net decrease of 148 DCI airframes, block hour ratios, top end scope JV protections, international scope, tightening Alaska scope, tightening the exception all are a very positive trade.
That's subjective, but exchanging 70 additional 76 seaters for a net decrease of 148 DCI airframes, block hour ratios, top end scope JV protections, international scope, tightening Alaska scope, tightening the exception all are a very positive trade.
06-15-2012, 02:33 PM
#13
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Do not forget that they are a niche part of the market, and much of that market came back to the airlines in the last downturn. Those newly minted millionaires could not afford their private jets. If they end up having to go though security, we will see more return as well.
Carl
06-15-2012, 02:55 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 169
Do not forget that they are a niche part of the market, and much of that market came back to the airlines in the last downturn. Those newly minted millionaires could not afford their private jets. If they end up having to go though security, we will see more return as well.
06-15-2012, 04:12 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Too late to try and sway people's minds. The alpa desperation is thick. We're in a position no differently than is 5 more lec reps also voted to not send out. We would already be heading back to the table for more goodies.
5 years ago, the net jets pilots voted to turn down the initial TA. A year later, they received 40% more with much better work rules. The CEO came out and publically stated that he was sorry that he underestimated the resolve of the pilots.
5 years ago, the net jets pilots voted to turn down the initial TA. A year later, they received 40% more with much better work rules. The CEO came out and publically stated that he was sorry that he underestimated the resolve of the pilots.
What were the conditions at Net Jets at the time? What was the profit margin. What conditions did the Net Jets pilots face before the agreement? What was the state of their competition and what was the comprehensive assessment of the value of their TA in relation to all of their competitors?
You throw out some anecdote with some conclusion with no supporting evidence and the Delta pilots are supposed to make a billion dollar decision based on that? Give me a break.
06-15-2012, 04:13 PM
#16
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
alfa and slow,
Thank you much for answering the questions. I appreciate the responses.
Thank you much for answering the questions. I appreciate the responses.
06-15-2012, 04:18 PM
#17
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: DAL
Posts: 623
I'm 100% fine if "no means less" as long as we're utilizing our leverage. We may never have this much again.
No risk...no payoff.
Go back to the table and follow our guidance. The NC's smug, cocky attitude is nauseating. Heed the survey results or resign.
No risk...no payoff.
Go back to the table and follow our guidance. The NC's smug, cocky attitude is nauseating. Heed the survey results or resign.
06-15-2012, 06:14 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
"Heed the survey results or resign", really?
What if the pilots want a 110% raise? How does any entity achieve that?
It's important in life that we all learn to not turn our desires into expectations.
06-15-2012, 06:15 PM
#19
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
You saying we shouldn't have expected any more out of this TA, shiz?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
