forgot to bid

Pink is for the all growth 717 scenario using the extra 717s that DALPA is mentioning in email. Which I thought would be fair game along with the 65 MD-90 number (minus the 3 operational spares crew planning said we'd be using this year knocking 48 down to 45).



In the pink, we have to grow ASMs. It's a wonderful scenario and would be great for us in terms of hiring and total mainline size fleet. It's great. Could happen.

But it doesn't have to happen. They can remove the 88s for 717s, save money on pilot costs btw, and still meet the ratio and keep ASMs on their current trajectory of profit over market share.

georgetg

1.B.46.f Exception one: If the Company establishes a fleet of new small narrowbody aircraft, the number of permitted 76-seat aircraft may increase on a one 76-seat aircraft for each one and one quarter new small narrowbody aircraft (1:1.25) ratio (rounded to the closest integer) up to a total of 223 76-seat aircraft.

1.B.28 “Fleet” means aircraft in service, undergoing maintenance, and operational spares.

Under the language they could "establish a fleet" at VCV...I take the company and ALPA at their word that the 717 will be delivered painted and with Delta blue leather seats, and it will be weeks from delivery to service entry, not months-years as is the case with the MD90s.



Cheers
George

80ktsClamp

Thanks, George!

The way I read that (and I'm very tired... so I could very well be wrong) is that there is no number of small narrowbodies required except the ratio. Is this NNP misstating that all 88 have to be on property prior to the acquisition of the first?

I'm intrigued as to where the 88 number comes from as a trigger...

(cleaned up your quote to take the line numbers out)

georgetg

That's not what it says at all...
Again the relationship is specifically descibed in 1.B.46.f

I had a nice conversation with Tim O. Yesterday and we discussed that very point.

1.B.46.f ...the number of permitted 76-seat aircraft may increase on a one 76-seat aircraft for each one and one quarter new small narrowbody aircraft (1:1.25) ratio (rounded to the closest integer) up to a total of 223 76-seat aircraft.

The delivery schedule for 717s starts in late 2013 and varies depending on who you talk to, from 4/36/36/12 to 16/36/36, at any rate it's 3/month...

With 16 717s in service on January 1, 2014 the ratios in 1.B.46.f are triggered for the first time.
16 717 = 12 76-seaters
12 76-seaters = removal of 32 50-seaters

On January 1, 2015 we measure the second time
16+36=52 717 in the fleet =add 42 76-seaters (195 total)
195 76-seaters = removal of 27+27+28+29+3+3=117-32=must remove 85 50-seaters (117 total removed so far)

On January 1 2016 we measure again
16+36+36=88
88 717 = 70 76-seaters
70 76-seaters = 125 hard cap on 50-seaters

It's only the last 76-seater that establishes the hard cap of 125, in 2016 or 2017 depending on the 717 delivery schedule...

Since you mention the MD90s sitting, waiting to get the mods, you can probably interpret this language in context:

1.B.28 “Fleet” means aircraft in service, undergoing maintenance, and operational spares.

Cheers
George

NuGuy

H George,

Theses are important points.

The "narrow body floor" that was part of the NWA BQ langange failed to trigger because of something very similar.

Management took one or two RJs less than the cap, but it was at the cap where the floor language got triggered. They got almost all the benefit, but none of the restrictions.

Language matters a lot in those cases...look at the settlement of the 153 large RJ grievance.

Nu

johnso29

So if they took delivery of all 88 B717's and 69 more 76 seat RJ's, how many 50 seaters are we left at?

Boomer

That's being a little spinny. Retirements are not contingent on this TA passing, and IMHO, should not be used as relief for the reduced staffing that results from the reserve modifications contained in this TA.

Boomer

If the first 50 seaters will not be removed until sometime in 2014, why the urgency to re-engine them now?

Does Bastian get a deal if he orders CRJ parts two years early?

johnso29

I think they have to schedule the overhauls well in advance. I don't think they can just get squeezed in this year. Also, the 50 seater retirements scheduled in conjunction with this TA are contingent upon B717 delivery. So there is a timeline that's been created. 717's come, then 76 seaters come, then 50 seaters parked. Just my observation.

80ktsClamp

Thanks for the data, george. Either Bill and I were reading that line from the NNP wrong, or they were speaking out of turn in their wording.

The NNP states that 88 717's must come on property before any 76 seaters are allowed... and that is definitely incorrect.