TA 2012 Contract Highlights
06-27-2012, 02:11 PM
#111
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
And the furlough agreement will not protect the bottom of the list and DAL will get get the 717s (if they do will park the most unprofitable airplanes - the 50 seaters anyway, older 319s/320s, older 757s) - so worst case we'll all be in trouble and I'll be back on the bottom near furlough again.
06-27-2012, 05:31 PM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Why did you assume a staffing ratio of less than 3 crews per aircraft when you made your DPA talking points slides? *We have no aircraft that are staffed that low, in fact you are about 50% low. *The company's actual plan is 5.5 for MD-90 and 7.0 for 717. *How did you come up with those numbers? *Was it based on some analysis or did you just shoot low to deceive people?
The slides are not DPA talking point slides.
You question my motives and claim I made the slides for the DPA. Those are tall accusations and they are without merit.
- Unlike you, I have actually voted in a representation election to be represented by ALPA. I have seen first hand the ugly tactics of MC's former law firm.
- My uncle Wally who passed away earlier this year worked at ALPA National for 40 years. So being ALPA is "in the family."
- I have not worked with, worked for or coordinated anything with the DPA, it just false and without merit to suggest otherwise.
- I made the slides without any input feedback or coordination with DPA, nor have I sent them to or provide them for the DPA to use.
As a Delta pilot it is my right and I feel my duty, to take a critical look at the impact the TA might have on our future.
If having an opinion different from yours is somehow "anti-ALPA" we are in deep trouble as a Union.
To the questions you raise:
I got my staffing numbers from Rich H. the E&FA guy.
He indicated a 717 delivery schedule of 4 in 2013, 36 in 2014, 36 in 205 and 12 in 2016.
He also indicated the 717 was to be staffed at 5.5 crews/aircraft.
Since then the delivery schedule was updated to 16 in 2013, 36 in 2014 and 36 in 2015. As a result I did update the slide to reflect the changed delivery schedule prior to publishing. Nothing nefarious, just the numbers from ALPA.
Since you questioned the DC-9 275 manning in a earlier post, I assume now everything is fine with that number, because it matches the latest Touch-and-Go. I showed 172 + 374 + 572 jobs added due to 717 addition by Jan 1 2015.
The MD90 numbers account for 5.5 crews/aircraft and are based on actual announced additions to the fleet, the 30 additional MD90s are authorized by the BOD but the some of those aircraft haven't even been purchased yet and others are taking years to join the fleet...BTW the April 1 Delta fleet info booklet (referenced on the bottom of the slide) shows the MD90 fleet count at 45.
A lot of the "discrepancies" you point out are based on continuously changing information about this TA.
Case in point the roadshow Slide 62 (referenced at the bottom of the slide) details staffing changes resulting from the TA.
The initial version of the slide and the printed roadshow hand-out showed a "slight" increase in staffing.
Later versions of the same roadshow slide show an "increase of 72."
The last roadshow I saw omitted slide 62 entirely and in it's place was a slide showing and increase of 175 pilot positions.
At some point I had to make my slide and used best available information at that time. My slide is no less incorrect as slide 62 on the road-show handout.
So short answer, some of the information provided by Delta and ALPA committee members has changed since the slide was made, if you are looking for it, that would be your "smoking gun..."
It does beg the question why, with all the analysis and costing resources available, the roadshow slide kept changing staffing projections long after the TA was agreed to. Were the original numbers the basis for approving the TA or the latter figures?
If the staffing number can change long after approval of the TA, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume some other numbers might change to our detriment...
I am certain we both want the same thing: What's good for Delta pilots.
Having a disagreement about what might have a positive or negative impact on our careers is to be expected. It would be foolish—after all that has happened in this industry—to assume otherwise.
Cheers
George
06-27-2012, 07:37 PM
#113
veut gagner à la loterie
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Classy post George.
06-27-2012, 10:03 PM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
The slides are not DPA talking point slides.
You question my motives and claim I made the slides for the DPA. Those are tall accusations and they are without merit.
As a Delta pilot it is my right and I feel my duty, to take a critical look at the impact the TA might have on our future.
If having an opinion different from yours is somehow "anti-ALPA" we are in deep trouble as a Union.
To the questions you raise:
I got my staffing numbers from Rich H. the E&FA guy.
He indicated a 717 delivery schedule of 4 in 2013, 36 in 2014, 36 in 205 and 12 in 2016.
He also indicated the 717 was to be staffed at 5.5 crews/aircraft.
Since then the delivery schedule was updated to 16 in 2013, 36 in 2014 and 36 in 2015. As a result I did update the slide to reflect the changed delivery schedule prior to publishing. Nothing nefarious, just the numbers from ALPA.
Since you questioned the DC-9 275 manning in a earlier post, I assume now everything is fine with that number, because it matches the latest Touch-and-Go. I showed 172 + 374 + 572 jobs added due to 717 addition by Jan 1 2015.
The MD90 numbers account for 5.5 crews/aircraft and are based on actual announced additions to the fleet, the 30 additional MD90s are authorized by the BOD but the some of those aircraft haven't even been purchased yet and others are taking years to join the fleet...BTW the April 1 Delta fleet info booklet (referenced on the bottom of the slide) shows the MD90 fleet count at 45.
A lot of the "discrepancies" you point out are based on continuously changing information about this TA.
Case in point the roadshow Slide 62 (referenced at the bottom of the slide) details staffing changes resulting from the TA.
The initial version of the slide and the printed roadshow hand-out showed a "slight" increase in staffing.
Later versions of the same roadshow slide show an "increase of 72."
The last roadshow I saw omitted slide 62 entirely and in it's place was a slide showing and increase of 175 pilot positions.
At some point I had to make my slide and used best available information at that time. My slide is no less incorrect as slide 62 on the road-show handout.
So short answer, some of the information provided by Delta and ALPA committee members has changed since the slide was made, if you are looking for it, that would be your "smoking gun..."
It does beg the question why, with all the analysis and costing resources available, the roadshow slide kept changing staffing projections long after the TA was agreed to. Were the original numbers the basis for approving the TA or the latter figures?
If the staffing number can change long after approval of the TA, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume some other numbers might change to our detriment...
I am certain we both want the same thing: What's good for Delta pilots.
Having a disagreement about what might have a positive or negative impact on our careers is to be expected. It would be foolish—after all that has happened in this industry—to assume otherwise.
Cheers
George
You question my motives and claim I made the slides for the DPA. Those are tall accusations and they are without merit.
- Unlike you, I have actually voted in a representation election to be represented by ALPA. I have seen first hand the ugly tactics of MC's former law firm.
- My uncle Wally who passed away earlier this year worked at ALPA National for 40 years. So being ALPA is "in the family."
- I have not worked with, worked for or coordinated anything with the DPA, it just false and without merit to suggest otherwise.
- I made the slides without any input feedback or coordination with DPA, nor have I sent them to or provide them for the DPA to use.
As a Delta pilot it is my right and I feel my duty, to take a critical look at the impact the TA might have on our future.
If having an opinion different from yours is somehow "anti-ALPA" we are in deep trouble as a Union.
To the questions you raise:
I got my staffing numbers from Rich H. the E&FA guy.
He indicated a 717 delivery schedule of 4 in 2013, 36 in 2014, 36 in 205 and 12 in 2016.
He also indicated the 717 was to be staffed at 5.5 crews/aircraft.
Since then the delivery schedule was updated to 16 in 2013, 36 in 2014 and 36 in 2015. As a result I did update the slide to reflect the changed delivery schedule prior to publishing. Nothing nefarious, just the numbers from ALPA.
Since you questioned the DC-9 275 manning in a earlier post, I assume now everything is fine with that number, because it matches the latest Touch-and-Go. I showed 172 + 374 + 572 jobs added due to 717 addition by Jan 1 2015.
The MD90 numbers account for 5.5 crews/aircraft and are based on actual announced additions to the fleet, the 30 additional MD90s are authorized by the BOD but the some of those aircraft haven't even been purchased yet and others are taking years to join the fleet...BTW the April 1 Delta fleet info booklet (referenced on the bottom of the slide) shows the MD90 fleet count at 45.
A lot of the "discrepancies" you point out are based on continuously changing information about this TA.
Case in point the roadshow Slide 62 (referenced at the bottom of the slide) details staffing changes resulting from the TA.
The initial version of the slide and the printed roadshow hand-out showed a "slight" increase in staffing.
Later versions of the same roadshow slide show an "increase of 72."
The last roadshow I saw omitted slide 62 entirely and in it's place was a slide showing and increase of 175 pilot positions.
At some point I had to make my slide and used best available information at that time. My slide is no less incorrect as slide 62 on the road-show handout.
So short answer, some of the information provided by Delta and ALPA committee members has changed since the slide was made, if you are looking for it, that would be your "smoking gun..."
It does beg the question why, with all the analysis and costing resources available, the roadshow slide kept changing staffing projections long after the TA was agreed to. Were the original numbers the basis for approving the TA or the latter figures?
If the staffing number can change long after approval of the TA, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume some other numbers might change to our detriment...
I am certain we both want the same thing: What's good for Delta pilots.
Having a disagreement about what might have a positive or negative impact on our careers is to be expected. It would be foolish—after all that has happened in this industry—to assume otherwise.
Cheers
George
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