The Many Reasons a Delta Captain Votes NO
06-10-2012, 10:32 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 758
To recap why we have leverage
Management will save 1 to 2 billion on heavy maintenance.
They get rid of unprofitable airplanes.
They get to keep money making CRJ 700s instead of swapping them.
They get 70 additional large RJs.
They can lock in minimal raises before making record profits.
Management will save 1 to 2 billion on heavy maintenance.
They get rid of unprofitable airplanes.
They get to keep money making CRJ 700s instead of swapping them.
They get 70 additional large RJs.
They can lock in minimal raises before making record profits.
06-10-2012, 10:42 AM
#32
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
To recap why we have leverage
Management will save 1 to 2 billion on heavy maintenance.
They get rid of unprofitable airplanes.
They get to keep money making CRJ 700s instead of swapping them.
They get 70 additional large RJs.
They can lock in minimal raises before making record profits.
Management will save 1 to 2 billion on heavy maintenance.
They get rid of unprofitable airplanes.
They get to keep money making CRJ 700s instead of swapping them.
They get 70 additional large RJs.
They can lock in minimal raises before making record profits.
06-10-2012, 10:45 AM
#33
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
Spoke with some of the no reps last week and they confirmed the $2B number, all we should want is a piece of that pie. Not the one that has sat upon the shelf for the past waiting for someone to buy it.
We all want the company to do well. None of want to kill the goose that lays our golden eggs, but one Captain I flew with wants to choke it a bit. When the TA came out and we all got that horrible feeling that we've been had and then started to read and dissect the TA we were still looking for the wow factor that mgmt was willing to give us to get onboard.
Our management team is very, very good. If they can get us onboard for a low amount they will, it's just business. If I have to live under the current contract a little longer, I will. I just hope none of our fellow pilots have spent the impending pay raise yet.
We all want the company to do well. None of want to kill the goose that lays our golden eggs, but one Captain I flew with wants to choke it a bit. When the TA came out and we all got that horrible feeling that we've been had and then started to read and dissect the TA we were still looking for the wow factor that mgmt was willing to give us to get onboard.
Our management team is very, very good. If they can get us onboard for a low amount they will, it's just business. If I have to live under the current contract a little longer, I will. I just hope none of our fellow pilots have spent the impending pay raise yet.
OK, so it is about the money. There you have it. That is a reason.
06-10-2012, 11:13 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Who is this well respected Captain that carries so much credibility, anyway? PM is fine. Thanks.
"...9. Canadair only has 11 76 seat aircraft to build and it closes down the line. There is a time crunch on Delta to get this deal done before that line is closed. This was a Canadair corporate decision..."
An inetresting point to consider. Cuts both ways, of course. C-Series wouldn't go to DCI. Makes this a bad thing. But if the line is to be kept alive only for 70 more, I assume we're not going to have to endure a request for more during the next TA. This is good.
"...9. Canadair only has 11 76 seat aircraft to build and it closes down the line. There is a time crunch on Delta to get this deal done before that line is closed. This was a Canadair corporate decision..."
An inetresting point to consider. Cuts both ways, of course. C-Series wouldn't go to DCI. Makes this a bad thing. But if the line is to be kept alive only for 70 more, I assume we're not going to have to endure a request for more during the next TA. This is good.
06-10-2012, 11:19 AM
#35
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
Who is this well respected Captain that carries so much credibility, anyway? PM is fine. Thanks.
"...9. Canadair only has 11 76 seat aircraft to build and it closes down the line. There is a time crunch on Delta to get this deal done before that line is closed. This was a Canadair corporate decision..."
An inetresting point to consider. Cuts both ways, of course. C-Series wouldn't go to DCI. Makes this a bad thing. But if the line is to be kept alive only for 70 more, I assume we're not going to have to endure a request for more during the next TA. This is good.
"...9. Canadair only has 11 76 seat aircraft to build and it closes down the line. There is a time crunch on Delta to get this deal done before that line is closed. This was a Canadair corporate decision..."
An inetresting point to consider. Cuts both ways, of course. C-Series wouldn't go to DCI. Makes this a bad thing. But if the line is to be kept alive only for 70 more, I assume we're not going to have to endure a request for more during the next TA. This is good.
06-10-2012, 11:36 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Maybe this is a smoking gun? I'm all for listening, but I would want to MAKE SURE this is true. Before I kept asking "What is the leverage?" Nobody knew exactly, including me. There had better be verification rather than just speculation. Without verification, then this means zero.
I understand Bombardier can go either way on this, and I'd love to see us turn in 50-seaters for C-Series instead... but what's the incentive for the DCI carriers to let Delta out of the 50-seat contracts?
"Who cares" isn't an answer...
06-10-2012, 11:45 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,774
Like Fat Jesus, I have no skin in the game either. But I'd like to see you guys do whatever is best in the long run for the entire Delta pilot group. If that means I have to wait on the sidelines longer, so be it.
06-10-2012, 11:49 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 273
From a well respected Captain on the Dalpa forum.
THE LEVERAGE EXPOSED
5. The 50 seat aircraft are coming up for mandatory engine maintenance/replacement costs very soon.
6. The costs to re-engine these 50 seat aircraft is between 2-2 1/2 BILLION dollars over the next 3 to 4 years. Unavoidable costs. (there are statements of 1billion on this web, those are wrong. The company has stated to me, through a person who knows, that the actual cost is 2-2 1/2 BILLION)
9. Canadair only has 11 76 seat aircraft to build and it closes down the line. There is a time crunch on Delta to get this deal done before that line is closed. This was a Canadair corporate decision.
12. AFTER re-engining the 50 seat aircraft, they still would operate at a revenue loss.
THE LEVERAGE EXPOSED
5. The 50 seat aircraft are coming up for mandatory engine maintenance/replacement costs very soon.
6. The costs to re-engine these 50 seat aircraft is between 2-2 1/2 BILLION dollars over the next 3 to 4 years. Unavoidable costs. (there are statements of 1billion on this web, those are wrong. The company has stated to me, through a person who knows, that the actual cost is 2-2 1/2 BILLION)
9. Canadair only has 11 76 seat aircraft to build and it closes down the line. There is a time crunch on Delta to get this deal done before that line is closed. This was a Canadair corporate decision.
12. AFTER re-engining the 50 seat aircraft, they still would operate at a revenue loss.
06-10-2012, 12:00 PM
#40
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
How does it help if this is true? Bombardier wants the market to get C-Series. We don't want DCI to fly C-Series. DCI carriers have contracts for 50-seaters, and will probably go out of business if they allowed us to void them. The company needs an incentive to get forgiveness on 50-seaters. The DCI carriers AND the lessor can work a deal around the 76-seaters.
I understand Bombardier can go either way on this, and I'd love to see us turn in 50-seaters for C-Series instead... but what's the incentive for the DCI carriers to let Delta out of the 50-seat contracts?
"Who cares" isn't an answer...
I understand Bombardier can go either way on this, and I'd love to see us turn in 50-seaters for C-Series instead... but what's the incentive for the DCI carriers to let Delta out of the 50-seat contracts?
"Who cares" isn't an answer...
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