shiznit

Even at 2 billion over 5 years, the TA improvements are worth around $400 million per year going into the bank accounts of Delta Pilots. That is a real transfer of Delta income from other entities to us.

Add that we get back to the table in LESS than 3 years working on getting more per the amendable date PLUS getting to reopen negotiations when FTDT is finalized.

FDX is solidly profitable, what kind of gains did they get on the last two rounds of negotiations?

hockeypilot44

We don't think we will have any leverage in 3 years. We are using it all now for gains that are not acceptable for the long term.

Fat Jesus

The OP's point though, is that the "bird-in-the-hand" is the leverage DAL pilots hold now. If the TA is ratified, you have nothing to use for leverage in three years. You will have solved a massive portion of managements problems for pennies on the dollar, then what are you going to use for negotiating capital?

asupilot

Here's some interesting analysis about the "bird-in-the-hand" concept. I have posted another file for review.

DepositFiles

untied

We're fighting too.

We declined your current contract due largely to scope issues.

Refusing to take a concessionary contract is fighting.

Accepting one crappy deal after another is not.

Fat Jesus

Can't download. Can you copy/paste or post a summary?

shiznit

I still don't see how capping outsourcing, cutting 1500 RJ pilot jobs, and increasing the pilot share of the company spending "pie" by $400 million per year(on average) is concessionary.

It will cost UCAL 750-800 million per year in gains to match it (plus about 350-400 more pilots added). Let us know when you get that done.

And good luck getting released with an embattled first term president from Chicago at the helm, genius idea....

Oh, and your MEC turned it down because it lacked all the important good parts of the DAL PWA... Rates don't tell the story...

Fat Jesus

Stop comparing it to UCAL and look at your own house, and what you can do for you. While you don't see it as concessionary, that $400m going to the pilots is actually saving the company $2.5b in 50 seater costs, while at the same time being partially funded with a decrease in profit sharing. It's a shell game, you're partially paying for your own raise. Company comes out much further ahead than you, while at the same time plusing up the number of large RJ's. In three years, DAL mgmt's mistakes will have been purged by your hard work, not theirs. What will you use to negotiate then? You may like the current TA, but you've got the leverage to make much more significant changes. Never mind the fact that a no vote slams the door forever on 900's (huge!).

For the record, I have no dog in this fight, just a guy watching from the sidelines hoping to join your team.

Bill Lumberg

Why would there ONLY be 11 orders? Maybe other airlines ordered them? Let's look at Wikipedia.... Also, isnt' the CRK (CRJ1000) line open? That one just got a boat load of orders from Garuda in Indonesia. All the CRK is is a stretched CR9. I would think they could keep the line open if needed. That's like a 737-900 and a 737-800.


Operators


A comparison between Bombardier CRJ700 (top) and CRJ900 (bottom)
Further information: List of Bombardier CRJ operators

As of July 2010, 316 CRJ700 aircraft (all variants) and 229 CRJ900 aircraft (all variants) were in airline service. Operators for these aircraft are SkyWest Airlines (104), Mesa Airlines (58), Atlantic Southeast Airlines (49), Mesaba Airlines (41), Lufthansa CityLine (32), Comair (28), American Eagle Airlines (25), GoJet Airlines (25), Air Canada Jazz (16), Pinnacle Airlines (14) Pluna (12), and other operators with fewer aircraft of the type.[1]

[edit] Orders and deliveries



Model Series

Orders

Deliveries

Unfilled


CRJ900

268

257

11





Grand Total

663

611

52


Bombardier data as of March 31, 2012.[2]

[edit] Latest orders



Date

Type

Customer

Orders

Options

Notes



25 April 2011

CRJ900

PLUNA

3

3




15 November 2011

CRJ900

Petroleum Air Services

1

1




9 February 2012

CRJ900

China Express Airlines

6
5



19 March 2012

CRJ900
Rwandair
2
2


Looks like China Express Airlines and Rwandair have some unfilled orders. I think Iraqi Air also ordered some. Let's find out?



From IRAQ Air at Wikipedia:

2012
In February 2012, Iraqi Airways announced that they will resume flights to India. From Baghdad four times a week, two flight each to Delhi and Mumbai starting from March and May respectively.[19]
In April 2012, several news agencies announced that Iraqi Airways will receive 40 new Boeing aircrafts, 30 737-800 and 10 787. The first airplanes will be delivered in December 2012.[20]
In April 2012, news agencies announced that Iraqi Airways will receive the remaining 4 Bombardier CRJ-900 in the coming months

Bill Lumberg

You are INFIGHTING more than you are fighting with your company. You could have helped everyone with pattern bargaining had you come together with your other half.