Negotiating Environment - Feeling Lucky?
06-01-2012, 07:41 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
Jack, this isn't a crusade, it's a business decision. When I make a business decision I always look at the risk side of the equation, has nothing to do with fear. I get your no vote on outsourcing and respect that, how come you have to reference a yes vote or risk assessment to a lack of balls ? I don't get that !
06-01-2012, 07:41 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Today's Headlines:
Weak US Job Growth Threatens World Economy
Jobs Report Signals More Trouble for Housing
Stocks Log Worst Day in 2012; Vix Surges 10%
Euro-Zone Reports Deepen Gloom
Asia Strains Under Euro Crisis
Dow gives up gains for year; Gold surges, dollar sinks
Salehi: Iran's nuclear stance is firm
Arab League requests U.N. action against Syria
Weak US Job Growth Threatens World Economy
Jobs Report Signals More Trouble for Housing
Stocks Log Worst Day in 2012; Vix Surges 10%
Euro-Zone Reports Deepen Gloom
Asia Strains Under Euro Crisis
Dow gives up gains for year; Gold surges, dollar sinks
Salehi: Iran's nuclear stance is firm
Arab League requests U.N. action against Syria
I actually partially agree with you. The environment, while not all Skittle skies and rainbows, is precarious this week. And next week, who knows, do you?
If you do, get of this board and start buying the proper options and futures and retire early.
Fact is, its managements job to run and this airline and absorb the above.
We fly planes safely and efficiently and it is our job to leverage those skills and other opportunities when they arise to OUR benefit.
So, in light of the current Euro scares, etc. I propose we should be trying to add jobs instead of giving them away. We can add jobs and help the company at the same time vis a vis scope.
Let them make a deal with the aircraft builders on the 50 seaters and obtain as many larger RJ's as they want.
Delta pilots will fly them though.
Negotiate a fair rate and the market forces will determine which DAL pilots fly them. Either new hires, or perhaps guys that are NB F/O's now.
06-01-2012, 08:28 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 187
I actually partially agree with you. The environment, while not all Skittle skies and rainbows, is precarious this week. And next week, who knows, do you?
If you do, get of this board and start buying the proper options and futures and retire early.
Fact is, its managements job to run and this airline and absorb the above.
We fly planes safely and efficiently and it is our job to leverage those skills and other opportunities when they arise to OUR benefit.
So, in light of the current Euro scares, etc. I propose we should be trying to add jobs instead of giving them away. We can add jobs and help the company at the same time vis a vis scope.
Let them make a deal with the aircraft builders on the 50 seaters and obtain as many larger RJ's as they want.
Delta pilots will fly them though.
Negotiate a fair rate and the market forces will determine which DAL pilots fly them. Either new hires, or perhaps guys that are NB F/O's now.
If you do, get of this board and start buying the proper options and futures and retire early.
Fact is, its managements job to run and this airline and absorb the above.
We fly planes safely and efficiently and it is our job to leverage those skills and other opportunities when they arise to OUR benefit.
So, in light of the current Euro scares, etc. I propose we should be trying to add jobs instead of giving them away. We can add jobs and help the company at the same time vis a vis scope.
Let them make a deal with the aircraft builders on the 50 seaters and obtain as many larger RJ's as they want.
Delta pilots will fly them though.
Negotiate a fair rate and the market forces will determine which DAL pilots fly them. Either new hires, or perhaps guys that are NB F/O's now.
06-01-2012, 08:42 PM
#24
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
I thought we did? Even ACL's analysis matches the results of this agreement putting another 800 to 1,000 on the list.
06-01-2012, 11:11 PM
#25
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
I actually partially agree with you. The environment, while not all Skittle skies and rainbows, is precarious this week. And next week, who knows, do you?
If you do, get of this board and start buying the proper options and futures and retire early.
Fact is, its managements job to run and this airline and absorb the above.
We fly planes safely and efficiently and it is our job to leverage those skills and other opportunities when they arise to OUR benefit.
So, in light of the current Euro scares, etc. I propose we should be trying to add jobs instead of giving them away. We can add jobs and help the company at the same time vis a vis scope.
Let them make a deal with the aircraft builders on the 50 seaters and obtain as many larger RJ's as they want.
Delta pilots will fly them though.
Negotiate a fair rate and the market forces will determine which DAL pilots fly them. Either new hires, or perhaps guys that are NB F/O's now.
If you do, get of this board and start buying the proper options and futures and retire early.
Fact is, its managements job to run and this airline and absorb the above.
We fly planes safely and efficiently and it is our job to leverage those skills and other opportunities when they arise to OUR benefit.
So, in light of the current Euro scares, etc. I propose we should be trying to add jobs instead of giving them away. We can add jobs and help the company at the same time vis a vis scope.
Let them make a deal with the aircraft builders on the 50 seaters and obtain as many larger RJ's as they want.
Delta pilots will fly them though.
Negotiate a fair rate and the market forces will determine which DAL pilots fly them. Either new hires, or perhaps guys that are NB F/O's now.
The 76 seaters are a lost cause lost long ago. Some routes can't sustain a 717 or bigger, but 50 seaters are proving uneconomical. We can't give them unlimited numbers, but a ratio with regard to mainline planes, and a slight increase in 76 seaters, seems to be a logical choice, as long as it is guaranteed by a ratio giving mainline the edge domestically.
06-02-2012, 02:51 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Jack, this isn't a crusade, it's a business decision. When I make a business decision I always look at the risk side of the equation, has nothing to do with fear. I get your no vote on outsourcing and respect that, how come you have to reference a yes vote or risk assessment to a lack of balls ? I don't get that !
06-02-2012, 03:05 AM
#28
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
That said, these ratios make those new hires the first accumulators in the system before we would hit the 1:59-1 where DCI would be forced to shrink.
06-02-2012, 04:44 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Some would argue NOT doing a deal that brings more permanent NB replacement flying to the regional's is better than nibbling on a grape or two thrown our way and doing this deal on the table. Compensation comes and goes, rules and outsourced flying of NB flying stay forever. You need to be mentally tough to not cave and walk away with a few sweaty dollars in your pocket. Think long term and stop being governed by fear......
Fear of the Unknown
To prosper, succeed and achieve a higher self requires adherence to challenge and change. Such a step asks for one to step away from the known and move towards the unknown with valor and vigor.
However, since the unknown presents indefinite outcomes and unfamiliar circumstances, it sometimes shifts away from a sense of safety and security in routine and familiarity. That which is well-known is effortless and undemanding; allowing one to remain sheltered in predictability.
Unfortunately, remaining within the limits of what is familiar and refraining from thinking outside the box will inhibit excellence and success.
Fear of the Unknown
To prosper, succeed and achieve a higher self requires adherence to challenge and change. Such a step asks for one to step away from the known and move towards the unknown with valor and vigor.
However, since the unknown presents indefinite outcomes and unfamiliar circumstances, it sometimes shifts away from a sense of safety and security in routine and familiarity. That which is well-known is effortless and undemanding; allowing one to remain sheltered in predictability.
Unfortunately, remaining within the limits of what is familiar and refraining from thinking outside the box will inhibit excellence and success.
UNLIMITED + 255 = 598 currently (and possibly MORE in the future, we don't want to confuse present trajectory with future possibilities).
This agreement forces that number to become FIXED and REDUCED as mainline buys airplanes to fill 76 seat jet routes and puts 76 seat jets onto 66 seat jet routes, and puts 66 seat jet routes on 50 seat jet routes...
About the part you bolded originally, I am of the opinion that a TA now IS thinking outside the box. I view it as a fallacy to look at this agreement though the eyes of being a year and a half or more into the amendable period. I would be mad as h&LL if we were 1.5-2 years past the amendable date and this is what was brought to us.
Is it enough, probably not. Is it all we have been offered? Yes. Is waiting it out going to yield better results? I'm not sure.
I don't believe in FUD, I'm in control of my emotions and my ability to look at my world and come to a logical conclusion.
Lots to think about this month, on a 1-10 scale (10 Heck yes, 1 Heck no), I'm a 5 bouncing between a 4 and 6 daily.
06-02-2012, 04:51 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Yes it does. Over the next three years my numbers show a min of about 600 and a max of 1100 without any widebody jets.
That said, these ratios make those new hires the first accumulators in the system before we would hit the 1:59-1 where DCI would be forced to shrink.
That said, these ratios make those new hires the first accumulators in the system before we would hit the 1:59-1 where DCI would be forced to shrink.
Depending on how the next round of RJ agreements are written, it will likely permit a reduction in a DCI carrier's "system block hours" as part of a swap deal. "Forced to shrink" is one thing, but DAL's "ability to shrink" DCI would be the unknown. Mainline CASM is lower than DCI CASM.
The multilayered, economic disincentive furlough design served us well through the 2008-2009 recession... Adding a piece or two more in that arsenal is helpful.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
