DAL TA Point Paper
05-23-2012, 03:37 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: B737 Captain
Posts: 111
DAL TA Point Paper
Below is a pdf my close friend wrote. It is titled “TA Point Paper.” I’m certain those of you who fly for DAL will find it familiar. It is by far the most comprehensive, coherent and factual dissertation I have seen to yet regarding the TA at DAL.
I am a Air Force pilot who’s nearing the end of his 10 year UPT commitment. I plan to jump ship for the airlines, hopefully, within the next 18-ish months. I watch the industry as closely as one can from the sidelines.
I felt the board needed this perspective. It's not a quick read, but I think you'll find value in the 13 pages. Review. Discuss. Enjoy.
edit: I'm unable to attach a pdf file to my post. Any idea how I can? I'm NOT going to cut-and-paste 13 pages.
I am a Air Force pilot who’s nearing the end of his 10 year UPT commitment. I plan to jump ship for the airlines, hopefully, within the next 18-ish months. I watch the industry as closely as one can from the sidelines.
I felt the board needed this perspective. It's not a quick read, but I think you'll find value in the 13 pages. Review. Discuss. Enjoy.
edit: I'm unable to attach a pdf file to my post. Any idea how I can? I'm NOT going to cut-and-paste 13 pages.
05-23-2012, 03:56 AM
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 27
You could put it on a file sharing site (filepost or deposit files for example) and then put the link for the file in your post for the time being.
05-23-2012, 04:03 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: B737 Captain
Posts: 111
Thanks! Hopefully this works.
FilePost.com: Download TA Point Paper.pdf - fast & secure!
Deposit Files seems to work better:
http://depositfiles.com/files/rq4tq9yrx?redirect
FilePost.com: Download TA Point Paper.pdf - fast & secure!
Deposit Files seems to work better:
http://depositfiles.com/files/rq4tq9yrx?redirect
Last edited by asupilot; 05-23-2012 at 04:21 AM.
05-23-2012, 04:36 AM
#4
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Interesting read. Thanks for sharing. Only about 1/2 way through so will withhold comment.
05-23-2012, 05:40 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B767 First Officer
Posts: 160
Excellent read.
05-23-2012, 05:46 AM
#6
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I shared this link over on the L&G thread. To be fair, there is a really good post by a friend of mine there that when combined with what the writer of the point-paper may have some traction.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/11...ost100715.html don't worry, takes you to post 100717 not the beginning!
The point-paper makes a good dispassionate analysis. The problem is many of the pilots are mad right now, so getting them to stop and wind the clock is the problem. If we were to wait the standard 3 years we'd need a much better pay rate to equal what we've lost by not signing a short term deal. The scope section may be an improvement as the writer suggests, but the devil in the details is whether ALPA has the ability/will to enforce it.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/11...ost100715.html don't worry, takes you to post 100717 not the beginning!
The point-paper makes a good dispassionate analysis. The problem is many of the pilots are mad right now, so getting them to stop and wind the clock is the problem. If we were to wait the standard 3 years we'd need a much better pay rate to equal what we've lost by not signing a short term deal. The scope section may be an improvement as the writer suggests, but the devil in the details is whether ALPA has the ability/will to enforce it.
05-23-2012, 08:10 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
I shared this link over on the L&G thread. To be fair, there is a really good post by a friend of mine there that when combined with what the writer of the point-paper may have some traction.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/11...ost100715.html don't worry, takes you to post 100717 not the beginning!
The point-paper makes a good dispassionate analysis. The problem is many of the pilots are mad right now, so getting them to stop and wind the clock is the problem. If we were to wait the standard 3 years we'd need a much better pay rate to equal what we've lost by not signing a short term deal. The scope section may be an improvement as the writer suggests, but the devil in the details is whether ALPA has the ability/will to enforce it.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/11...ost100715.html don't worry, takes you to post 100717 not the beginning!
The point-paper makes a good dispassionate analysis. The problem is many of the pilots are mad right now, so getting them to stop and wind the clock is the problem. If we were to wait the standard 3 years we'd need a much better pay rate to equal what we've lost by not signing a short term deal. The scope section may be an improvement as the writer suggests, but the devil in the details is whether ALPA has the ability/will to enforce it.
05-23-2012, 08:14 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
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Posts: 23,286
Definately has the data, matches a lot of the stuff DALPA folks are referencing and it's pro passage.
The thing going on here is a difference of oppinion over what's good or bad. I don't think anyone is arguing about what the TA says, just whether what it says is good or bad. Example, some call the 255 hard large rj cap going to 325 and 50 seaters down to 125 is a home run and a win. Some like me look at that same data and say that's a strike out and a major loss.
And percentages do indeed help to tell a story and sometimes they don't. This has a lot of percentages and that's great help. But if you improve your running mile time by 100% but are till running a 10 min mile...
The thing going on here is a difference of oppinion over what's good or bad. I don't think anyone is arguing about what the TA says, just whether what it says is good or bad. Example, some call the 255 hard large rj cap going to 325 and 50 seaters down to 125 is a home run and a win. Some like me look at that same data and say that's a strike out and a major loss.
And percentages do indeed help to tell a story and sometimes they don't. This has a lot of percentages and that's great help. But if you improve your running mile time by 100% but are till running a 10 min mile...
05-23-2012, 08:18 AM
#9
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
Definately has the data, matches a lot of the stuff DALPA folks are referencing and it's pro passage.
The thing going on here is a difference of oppinion over what's good or bad. I don't think anyone is arguing about what the TA says, just whether what it says is good or bad. Example, some call the 255 hard large rj cap going to 325 and 50 seaters down to 125 is a home run and a win. Some like me look at that same data and say that's a strike out and a major loss.
And percentages do indeed help to tell a story and sometimes they don't. This has a lot of percentages and that's great help. But if you improve your running mile time by 100% but are till running a 10 min mile...
The thing going on here is a difference of oppinion over what's good or bad. I don't think anyone is arguing about what the TA says, just whether what it says is good or bad. Example, some call the 255 hard large rj cap going to 325 and 50 seaters down to 125 is a home run and a win. Some like me look at that same data and say that's a strike out and a major loss.
And percentages do indeed help to tell a story and sometimes they don't. This has a lot of percentages and that's great help. But if you improve your running mile time by 100% but are till running a 10 min mile...
05-23-2012, 08:18 AM
#10
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 7ERB, no M88, no 7ER, no A320, NEXT!
Posts: 397
The biggest problem with the TA is that it is not what the pilots asked for in the survey. The problem we have is not with the company, but with ALPA. In this case ALPA has taken the position that they believe they know what is best for us. Why even bother surveying the pilot group then? No where in the survey was I asked what I would be willing to accept to get a quick deal. The survey was geared toward a normal section 6 process. Basically we have had almost no input as to what we would be willing to accept to get a quick deal. We have not been asked our time value of money.
If we ratify this TA we set a dangerous precedent, showing ALPA that they can ignore our input, or in this case not ask our input when it became clear that an expedited process might be possible.
We all pay dues to be represented and have our voices heard. In this instance, ALPA has ignored our input and crafted a TA based on the company's desire to get a deal quick. Who has ALPA represented here?
If we ratify this TA we set a dangerous precedent, showing ALPA that they can ignore our input, or in this case not ask our input when it became clear that an expedited process might be possible.
We all pay dues to be represented and have our voices heard. In this instance, ALPA has ignored our input and crafted a TA based on the company's desire to get a deal quick. Who has ALPA represented here?
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