DAL TA Point Paper
05-23-2012, 08:05 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 758
Some such as the author tend to think we will not see another TA for quite some time if we reject this one. This is illogical. Here is my point. Why was the company so quick to negotiate this one? Kindness of heart? No way...management needs it done quickly. Why would that change all of a sudden? Delta must have a pressing need to get it done otherwise they would have never negotiated so rapidly in the first place. Nothing has changed. The ball is in our court.
05-23-2012, 08:12 PM
#62
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: A320
Posts: 65
HUGE improvement in passenger satisfaction. Deadheaded on DCI lately? No offense to their pilots, but their (our?) product is a downright embarrassment. I sat first class last time I was on a 70+ seater and I would have MUCH preferred a middle seat on a MD-88. That is NOT emotion talking.
05-23-2012, 08:12 PM
#63
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Total number of seats will increase from over 36,000 to 30,338.
Errr... did I get that backwards.
Oh, wait a minute. Under our current contract, if we did get a fleet increase by 88 aircraft, then the 76 seat limit would be 255. Under the TA it would be 223.
70 seat aircraft stay at 102.
50s drop from the about 350 to 125.
This scope agreement moves DCI flying to mainline in a significant way. I can see the good in that. Furlough protection from hiring, below me. I won't be a captain on the 717, because it won't be based at my base, but I may move up a seat.
I define it as the 51-76 seat jets.
Of which, there will be a massive increase just as you state from 255 large regional jets to 325 as we add 70 more 76-seaters without reducing a single 65-69 seater.
Glad you're happy with that increase.
05-23-2012, 08:14 PM
#64
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
I read this paper today, and it was FULL of holes.
I have honestly been on the fence of voting yes as my emotions teeter between rage and resignation. As I read the "pro TA essay" as I'll call it, at first glance of each section it gave a good college effort. Unfortunately without much thought I was able to refute each argument (s)he had. Facts were lacking, alternate endings were unaccounted for. I'm not a "chest thumper" and if anyone doubts that and needs me to refute each section I'll gladly do it, but I think anyone reading this forum is fully aware of all the back doors and short comings.
Here's my bottom line: No more outsourcing. Those jobs we outsource we will NEVER get back (unless economics dictate otherwise which is our SAVIOR with 50 seaters) unless we take a stand and this is literally our la
chance.
This agreement could be identical, except the added 76 seaters could be flown by mainline pilots. Still a shotty agreement? Yeah. Except it puts an end to this poison we call outsourcing. Outsourcing diminishes our product and it diminishes our profession.
I want to keep Delta our Delta. We're more tied to this company than ANYONE, even RA. No more diluting the brand, no more diluting the profession. This is not emotion talking this is hours upon hours of deep reflection and thought.
This decision is much more important than weighing the "pros and cons" as presented by ALPA. You need to dig deep and examine the ramifications of
our apathy. The apathy management has learned to feed off of and fuel their excessive compensation while ours stagnates.
No more, not for me.
I have honestly been on the fence of voting yes as my emotions teeter between rage and resignation. As I read the "pro TA essay" as I'll call it, at first glance of each section it gave a good college effort. Unfortunately without much thought I was able to refute each argument (s)he had. Facts were lacking, alternate endings were unaccounted for. I'm not a "chest thumper" and if anyone doubts that and needs me to refute each section I'll gladly do it, but I think anyone reading this forum is fully aware of all the back doors and short comings.
Here's my bottom line: No more outsourcing. Those jobs we outsource we will NEVER get back (unless economics dictate otherwise which is our SAVIOR with 50 seaters) unless we take a stand and this is literally our la
chance.
This agreement could be identical, except the added 76 seaters could be flown by mainline pilots. Still a shotty agreement? Yeah. Except it puts an end to this poison we call outsourcing. Outsourcing diminishes our product and it diminishes our profession.
I want to keep Delta our Delta. We're more tied to this company than ANYONE, even RA. No more diluting the brand, no more diluting the profession. This is not emotion talking this is hours upon hours of deep reflection and thought.
This decision is much more important than weighing the "pros and cons" as presented by ALPA. You need to dig deep and examine the ramifications of
our apathy. The apathy management has learned to feed off of and fuel their excessive compensation while ours stagnates.
No more, not for me.
05-23-2012, 08:16 PM
#65
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05-23-2012, 08:17 PM
#66
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
05-23-2012, 08:19 PM
#67
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: A320
Posts: 65
I am curious how you think we should staff the future 76 seaters for mainline? Our pilots, of course. How about FA's? Mechanics? Rampers? All Delta employees at Delta pay rates? Maybe ASA FA's? How much would that cost? Our sim guys? Our sims? Please give us your idea on how to do it.
05-23-2012, 08:24 PM
#68
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Posts: 23,286
I am curious how you think we should staff the future 76 seaters for mainline? Our pilots, of course. How about FA's? Mechanics? Rampers? All Delta employees at Delta pay rates? Maybe ASA FA's? How much would that cost? Our sim guys? Our sims? Please give us your idea on how to do it.
But the rampers would already be the same as they are now. Mechanics, well we outsource heavy maintenance on our jets so it's the matter of adding a few more line mechanics. ASA FA's or Delta? I don't know, let the Delta FA union fight that battle. tic. I'd use ours because you can also use them on every airplane up to the 744.
The best part is there would be no limit on how many 76 seaters they could have. If they want 400, go for it. Economies of scale would kick in our favor. They probably know that too, so 400 is probably their outsourced goal as well.
but if they're so much cheaper... why not use them on the 717s, MD88s, 319s, 320s, surely they'd fly the 744s...
05-23-2012, 08:54 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
So this is our new sick leave monitoring program that ALPA says they eliminated. It will really help the company out because they won't have to staff phone callers because you'll be the one making the call each time you are sick. Also, you will most likely be paying to get the doctors note for each sick occourance. Read on:
The company can only presently inquire and ask you about the general nature of illness, and only if it's over 7 days of absence can they require a doctors note. This new language adds the "discussion with chief pilot" and also adds the benchmark of 100 hours of annual usage where you MUST provide a doctors certificate to the company. It also STRIKES the part where verification is not normally required for absences less than 7 days in duration (that is huge), and ADDS language that allows pretty much ANY absence to be subject to the program.
Now pretty much every pilot I know will be providing a doctors note to the company, under this TA, whereas before none was REQUIRED. This is a huge win for the companys Sick Leave Monitoring Program that ALPA falsely claims was eliminated, and a huge concession for the pilots... heck, it could cost you your very job if you don't have all of your papers "in order".
It also adds language where you "may" "VERIFY" your illness to the CPO by providing a doctors certificate to them, otherwise your illness will be considered "UNVERIFIED". In other words, you are not really sick and will be considered an abuser subject to inquiry unless you provide a DOCTORS CERTIFICATE for EVERY ILLNESS. That's what this section creates! Can't anyone see that? The Flight Attendants currently have this!!
In other, other words... The company no longer needs to call you when you are sick, because YOU"LL BE CALLING THEM!!!
And if you think that's brilliant, get this: YOU'LL be paying the doctor unless the CPO specifically asks you for verification. But you'll verify anyway, because that's how this program is set up. It's all on YOU. Every time you get sick you'll be thinking "Should I go to the Doctor and get a verification in case I get sick again sometime this year?" And you will!
The company can only presently inquire and ask you about the general nature of illness, and only if it's over 7 days of absence can they require a doctors note. This new language adds the "discussion with chief pilot" and also adds the benchmark of 100 hours of annual usage where you MUST provide a doctors certificate to the company. It also STRIKES the part where verification is not normally required for absences less than 7 days in duration (that is huge), and ADDS language that allows pretty much ANY absence to be subject to the program.
Now pretty much every pilot I know will be providing a doctors note to the company, under this TA, whereas before none was REQUIRED. This is a huge win for the companys Sick Leave Monitoring Program that ALPA falsely claims was eliminated, and a huge concession for the pilots... heck, it could cost you your very job if you don't have all of your papers "in order".
It also adds language where you "may" "VERIFY" your illness to the CPO by providing a doctors certificate to them, otherwise your illness will be considered "UNVERIFIED". In other words, you are not really sick and will be considered an abuser subject to inquiry unless you provide a DOCTORS CERTIFICATE for EVERY ILLNESS. That's what this section creates! Can't anyone see that? The Flight Attendants currently have this!!
In other, other words... The company no longer needs to call you when you are sick, because YOU"LL BE CALLING THEM!!!
And if you think that's brilliant, get this: YOU'LL be paying the doctor unless the CPO specifically asks you for verification. But you'll verify anyway, because that's how this program is set up. It's all on YOU. Every time you get sick you'll be thinking "Should I go to the Doctor and get a verification in case I get sick again sometime this year?" And you will!
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