DAL TA Point Paper
05-23-2012, 08:58 AM
#11
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Interesting read on the positives.. but why no mention of the negatives?
And probably the worst thing is- No name to it. I always read something without a name associated with it, with a grain of salt.
Kinda interesting that less than three days after a TA is shown to the pilot group, some "individual" has had the time to dissect the TA so thoroughly.
As Superdad mentioned above ^, is this TA the will of the pilot group, or the will of the MEC/ALPA National. Cause, if it's the will of the pilot group then it is interesting that 5 members of the MEC voted against it (supposedly because it went against your survey result?!)
Thanks for posting it though~
Motch
And probably the worst thing is- No name to it. I always read something without a name associated with it, with a grain of salt.
Kinda interesting that less than three days after a TA is shown to the pilot group, some "individual" has had the time to dissect the TA so thoroughly.
As Superdad mentioned above ^, is this TA the will of the pilot group, or the will of the MEC/ALPA National. Cause, if it's the will of the pilot group then it is interesting that 5 members of the MEC voted against it (supposedly because it went against your survey result?!)
Thanks for posting it though~
Motch
05-23-2012, 09:02 AM
#12
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,598
Interesting read on the positives.. but why no mention of the negatives?
And probably the worst thing is- No name to it. I always read something without a name associated with it, with a grain of salt.
Kinda interesting that less than three days after a TA is shown to the pilot group, some "individual" has had the time to dissect the TA so thoroughly.
As Superdad mentioned above ^, is this TA the will of the pilot group, or the will of the MEC/ALPA National. Cause, if it's the will of the pilot group then it is interesting that 5 members of the MEC voted against it (supposedly because it went against your survey result?!)
Thanks for posting it though~
Motch
And probably the worst thing is- No name to it. I always read something without a name associated with it, with a grain of salt.
Kinda interesting that less than three days after a TA is shown to the pilot group, some "individual" has had the time to dissect the TA so thoroughly.
As Superdad mentioned above ^, is this TA the will of the pilot group, or the will of the MEC/ALPA National. Cause, if it's the will of the pilot group then it is interesting that 5 members of the MEC voted against it (supposedly because it went against your survey result?!)
Thanks for posting it though~
Motch
I would encourage all to talk to their reps. I had a long conversation with mine and it helped. More importantly when I asked what he didn't like, I actually got several items which was not what I was expecting at all and section 3 was one of them.
05-23-2012, 09:05 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,903
I would also like to see who wrote it. Just to make sure it isn't part of the spin machine, and as to the negatives, that would also be good.
I would encourage all to talk to their reps. I had a long conversation with mine and it helped. More importantly when I asked what he didn't like, I actually got several items which was not what I was expecting at all and section 3 was one of them.
I would encourage all to talk to their reps. I had a long conversation with mine and it helped. More importantly when I asked what he didn't like, I actually got several items which was not what I was expecting at all and section 3 was one of them.
Nu
05-23-2012, 09:11 AM
#14
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You forced me to go somewhere that I generally try to avoid. It wasn't too hard to find it there. Don't know too much about the guy except I've seen his name before and that usually isn't good on that board. I just enjoyed having some numbers to look at.
I don't think I'm a yes vote on this like he is, but I am starting to look at a whole lot more than just the initial emotion of "Oh he!! NO!"
05-23-2012, 09:30 AM
#15
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Posts: 200
His point paper is excellent. The argument is well thought out and fully supported by verifiable facts. This contract when fully executed will have DAL pay rates at the top of the industry, and there will be a massive shift in pilot jobs back to mainline. That was always the goal. These conclusions are not opinions and are well supported by the actual numbers in the TA as clearly detailed in this point paper.
05-23-2012, 09:50 AM
#17
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It is really not important to me if DALPA or DPA wrote this. It is based on the hard language and data contained in the TA and as such does not become "less true" based on writer. If the argument was based on emotion, speculation, and conspiracy theories then the author is quite important to know.
I am painfully aware there are bad things in the TA. I would like to see a similar PP on the negatives, but so far all the arguments against are so ripe with rhetoric and vitriol it is hard to separate real negatives from wild speculation and conjecture. It is still early, so I'm sure we will see the "no" PP soon.
I am painfully aware there are bad things in the TA. I would like to see a similar PP on the negatives, but so far all the arguments against are so ripe with rhetoric and vitriol it is hard to separate real negatives from wild speculation and conjecture. It is still early, so I'm sure we will see the "no" PP soon.
05-23-2012, 10:06 AM
#18
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Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 194
Interesting read on the positives.. but why no mention of the negatives?
And probably the worst thing is- No name to it. I always read something without a name associated with it, with a grain of salt.
Kinda interesting that less than three days after a TA is shown to the pilot group, some "individual" has had the time to dissect the TA so thoroughly.
As Superdad mentioned above ^, is this TA the will of the pilot group, or the will of the MEC/ALPA National. Cause, if it's the will of the pilot group then it is interesting that 5 members of the MEC voted against it (supposedly because it went against your survey result?!)
Thanks for posting it though~
Motch
And probably the worst thing is- No name to it. I always read something without a name associated with it, with a grain of salt.
Kinda interesting that less than three days after a TA is shown to the pilot group, some "individual" has had the time to dissect the TA so thoroughly.
As Superdad mentioned above ^, is this TA the will of the pilot group, or the will of the MEC/ALPA National. Cause, if it's the will of the pilot group then it is interesting that 5 members of the MEC voted against it (supposedly because it went against your survey result?!)
Thanks for posting it though~
Motch
I will have my name associated with this document any day.
Ron Mullis
Capt. MD88/90 ATL
05-23-2012, 10:08 AM
#19
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The biggest problem with the TA is that it is not what the pilots asked for in the survey. The problem we have is not with the company, but with ALPA. In this case ALPA has taken the position that they believe they know what is best for us. Why even bother surveying the pilot group then? No where in the survey was I asked what I would be willing to accept to get a quick deal. The survey was geared toward a normal section 6 process. Basically we have had almost no input as to what we would be willing to accept to get a quick deal. We have not been asked our time value of money.
If we ratify this TA we set a dangerous precedent, showing ALPA that they can ignore our input, or in this case not ask our input when it became clear that an expedited process might be possible.
We all pay dues to be represented and have our voices heard. In this instance, ALPA has ignored our input and crafted a TA based on the company's desire to get a deal quick. Who has ALPA represented here?
If we ratify this TA we set a dangerous precedent, showing ALPA that they can ignore our input, or in this case not ask our input when it became clear that an expedited process might be possible.
We all pay dues to be represented and have our voices heard. In this instance, ALPA has ignored our input and crafted a TA based on the company's desire to get a deal quick. Who has ALPA represented here?
This is no different. What if the survey results were unattainable? Their job is to get us the best deal possible. No union (accept the New Jersey, and California teachers) will ever get everything their membership wants.
05-23-2012, 10:09 AM
#20
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Thanks for taking the time to both write the paper and putting your name here.
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